CHANGE THE HOMEPAGE!!!!

I am fed up with seeing IPhone splattered over the homepage! Change it, this is PC Pro, not Apple Central!!!

By Nathan_Jeremiah on 28 Jun 2010

When do you take Price into account?

I am disappointed PC Pro have A listed this. The desire got all 36 stars and was A listed. The iPhone only got 33, and was A listed. Does this mean that the stars have nothing to do with whether the product is A listed? Or is it that the Value of the product is not taken into account?
More than this, I always thought PC Pro was a PC for Professional people in IT. And everyone knows that Professional IT people care about functionality more than anything else. The Desire can be used with any PC, has a standard microUSB connection, it is open source, expandable memory, changeable battery, a better interface, you can hold it anyway you like without signal loss, I could go on. So how can something like the super restrictive iPhone get A listed?

By jagdipa on 28 Jun 2010

Shallow!

Another bunch of reviewers taken in by something shiny, I agree with all of jagdipa's comments the HTC Desire should retain the A-List spot as it is far more innovative and less restrictive than the iPhone.

By craigio on 28 Jun 2010

Signal Drop

Search youtube for "iphone 4 signal"
I have seen several videos of people holding their phones in a normal way with the signal falling drastically. Perhaps its not the same with all iPhone 4s, but I wouldn't call this a 'minor issue'.

By nabster on 28 Jun 2010

I'm sorry, A-list?

I agree with Jagdipa, price obviously is irrelevant to an A-list recommendation, so why bother with a value for money rating?

P.S. I'm biased, I bought an HTC Desire AND I don't use any Apple products, not even Quicktime.

By Stonedecroze on 28 Jun 2010

im sure you have the cheapest price for an iphone wrong!! surely its cheaper at tesco mobile who allow you to have it on a 12 month contract

By martinburman on 28 Jun 2010

It can't be just me...

...that is sick of having Apple products splashed all over the front page of PC Pro and to hear the podcast be almost an advertisement for Apple. Surely PC Pro should be aimed at professionals as the name suggests. I can't see any reason a IT professional would want to buy an iPhone since there aimed squarely at the consumer. And I totally agree with Jagdipa with all his points. If this is now an Apple based magazine can you let me know and I'll stop reading...

By thenoble06 on 29 Jun 2010

I Agree

I agree with all the above comments. I am getting fed by how all the media is getting hyped up over Apple products. There are other companies / products out there which are just as good. In PC Pro I expect balance. Perhaps it is time to review my subscription.

By BidAuto on 29 Jun 2010

Brilliant!!

£800 for an internet phone that can't access 70% of the internet and doesn't work as a phone.

By Bullseye on 29 Jun 2010

How much did Apple pay PCPro to "love" this...

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/smartphones/357478/
htc-desire

Just to echo the comments above. A full 24 stars, cheaper - so better value. I'm really finding it hard to see PC Pro as independant, when every Apple product is a gift from God. Are you related to FIFA by any chance? (Set in their ways)
Disappointed to see this as A-listed.

By Greendot on 29 Jun 2010

Confused

I don't understand why the iPhone is on the A list when it is only average value for money? And how does it get a maximum overall rating when the value for money is poor. And the review doesn't answer the question of whether the iPhone is worth £220 more than the Desire? Sadly, it all looks a bit contrived.

By ianreid99 on 29 Jun 2010

Shocking

I also agree with all the above comments. I just do not understand how a device with such a significant design flaw can get 6/6 for features and design or haw it can be recommended above the HTC Desire despite scoring less.

Now I wait for Mr Bray's response to the criticisms of his review, one of the worst I have ever read here on PC Pro.

By robmitchell21 on 29 Jun 2010

Ditto

It is massivelly overpriced to be on the A list.

By Lomskij on 29 Jun 2010

Oh and another thing.

“Let’s get that one out in the open right away. The lowest price you’ll currently pay for an iPhone 4 is £219 for the 32GB version, after which you have to pay £25 per month for 24 months from Vodafone. That works out at a total cost of ownership of £819 over two years, compared with the HTC Desire, which will cost £600 over the same period. The key question is: is it worth the extra 220 quid?”

Also the author seems to be confused over pricing.
Without a contract the iPhone 4 (the cheapest version) is £499.
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/
family/iphone

HTC Desire is £399.95 (Over £100 cheaper!)
http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-ph
ones/HTC-DESIRE/PPAY?src=phoneFinder&tariffNetwork
s=

With a contact (and this is even shown in a table on the PCPro website, link below) you even mention in your A list round up that the Desire is FREE on a contract, that’s for £25 per month (with Orange I guess), so yet again, cheaper than the iPhone4.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/alist/premium-smartphone

Oh and while you’re at it, update the table, unless you can tell us all where you can pick up an iPhone 4, without a contract for £219inc VAT.

By Greendot on 29 Jun 2010

Prices...

I'm afraid the £219 price at the very top of the review is a bug in the website - only the first part is currently being displayed. The rest should read ... "on a £25 per month, 24 month contract". It is in the process of being fixed.

That cleared up, I'd just like to point out that at no point do I say that this is a great value for money option. It is more expensive than a Desire - whether you buy it on contact with Tesco (£649 over 12 months) or Vodafone (£819 over 24 months). I've given it a 3/6 for Value for money. Confused I am not.

The iPhone 4 is, however, the best smartphone on the market right now for all the reasons detailed in the review, which is why we've A-Listed it. It has the best screen, the best range of apps available to it, better battery life than the Desire and a better camera.

If you can't afford it, or don't want to - which is understandable - the HTC Desire is the next best thing. If you want a phone for business, the BlackBerry Bold 9700 is your best bet. But right now there is no better smartphone than the iPhone 4.

By JonBray on 29 Jun 2010

weak

Reminds me of England on Sunday Jon - Weak defense.

By robmitchell21 on 29 Jun 2010

Dare I step in here...

Unbelievable amounts of Apple hate here. Fair enough, if you're not into Apple then you must be getting tired of the coverage, but it's can't be denied how popular this phone is, and how many people want it. I can't believe that is ONLY clueless punters that buy it. I see it plenty of IT Professionals that want and love the iPhone. And its place in the corporate world is expanding every day. I'll defend PC Pro here and say I'm happy with the amount of coverage it's getting on the web site. You can’t pretend that your clients aren’t going to ask you about it, so it pays to be up to speed. Or what do you say? Not allowed?
As for the A - List. I'll stick my neck out and say it seems like it is the best smartphone hardware and software on the market even if overpriced. The flash issue is a problem, but how much of a problem this is depends on the individual. It annoys me in principle, but it doesn't stop me using my iPod Touch at home for plenty of surfing and email. I don’t find it a showstopper.

By randomtoast on 29 Jun 2010

i was never really into apple, but i recently got a iphone 3gs (for free on contract - woohoo) and i can honestly say its the greatest thing since sliced bread. I use it for email, lite surfing, games, if it was a little bigger (but smaller than the ipad) i could do without my laptop altogether.
One thing though - i hate itunes. couldnt get the thing to install properly on my laptop,finally got it going on the desktop, but it is so cumersome, so i switched to using copytrans on my laptop and it does the job just fine. one more point though upgrading to ios4 is a must, just for the multitasking although i cant seem to get the folders to work yet, am i missing something or is this just iphone4 specific ?

Hate Apple, Love Iphone :)

By baileytech on 29 Jun 2010

I agree with most of the sentiment above. However, my main issue surrounding the coverage of Apple products isn't the amount, more so the bias that their products seem to receive. It seems that Steve Jobs' PR machine has well-infiltrated the PC-Pro offices. For instance, with this phone there are some serious flaws (I've seen the signal problem first hand and it's shockingly bad), yet at the end of the review there's still a 6-star, A-list rating.

I've grown to live with the "yes, but it's Apple so it doesn't matter" attitude to flaws that the fanboys all take (Chris Brennan being one of the worst), but I expect a more measured and unbiased approach from a magazine calling itself PC Pro.

By atomz on 29 Jun 2010

Still don't get it

Jon, if you rate the value for money as 3/6 then clearly you don't think the phone is worth the money, so how does it appear on the a list? It seems that the A list rating is totally subjective and nothing to do with the ratings. I don't get it. It may be that your review is constrained by the amount of web pages you are allowed to write, but I think the review on the Engadget site (http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/iphone-4-revie
w/) is way more detailed and informative (and yes, they also conclude it is the best smartphone, but for demonstrable reasons).

By ianreid99 on 29 Jun 2010

No grudge against Apple, just this phone.

Thanks for your post Jon and I hope the price is corrected soon.

@randomtoast - I wouldn't say that i hate Apple.
Apart from looking the part, their previous products do 'just work'. The wife has a 3GS and i admit that is a good phone and i enjoying playing with it and that was worthy of a A listing. I bought an enjoyed using my 32GB iTouch.
But when Apple release a product (given their previous unblemished track record) and it's released with problems - for an independent magazine to rate it as A-list, because it has a slightly higher resolution screen (but, not as vibrant as an OLED), a better camera (even though the Mega pixel count is the same as the Desire, although I’ve yet to see the comparisons of photo quality between the two).
I fail to see why this should be A-listed.
I guess i should maybe look at another source of unbiased reviews in the future.

By Greendot on 29 Jun 2010

Flawed Phone and Great Review?

This review is not balanced. How could a phone with a problem like the signal issue end up with a 5 * review?? If this was Samsung or a Windows phone it would have been slated. Quite clearly this reviewer is prepared to ignore the flaws because he has been seduced by the shiny publicity machine of Steve Jobs and Apple. - Oh and just one more thing, give me the Samsung Galaxy S any day. Who wants a phone restricted from using flash.

By barrada on 29 Jun 2010

Get a grip folks

I'll start of by saying that I've recently bought an HTC Desire and I love it.
I avoided the iPhone coz it's so expensive.

But for everyone on here to slate Jon for his review simply because it got a lower star score, and still got A-listed is ridiculous.
If the Desire was reviewed again, it would presumably not get full marks on everything.

in some areas, the new iPhone has moved the market on.
For example, would the Desire still get full marks based on it's battery life?


The iPhone may well be a better smartphone, but I still wouldn't pay an extra premium for it.
That doesn't stop it from being the best.

And finally, remember, Smartphones these days are primarily mobile internet devices that have the ability to make calls.


(I still wouldn't buy an iPhone though)

By SteveSmith on 29 Jun 2010

Still don't get it

Jon, if you rate the value for money as 3/6 then clearly you don't think the phone is worth the money, so how does it appear on the a list? It seems that the A list rating is totally subjective and nothing to do with the ratings. I don't get it. It may be that your review is constrained by the amount of web pages you are allowed to write, but I think the review on the Engadget site (http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/iphone-4-revie
w/) is way more detailed and informative (and yes, they also conclude it is the best smartphone, but for demonstrable reasons).

By ianreid99 on 29 Jun 2010

baileytech.
If you hold down an app till they start wiggling and then drag one app directly onto another app you will see that it creates a folder with both apps in. One of the best features of IOS4 in my opinion.

On another note, I understand people moaning that you rate it as not being worth the money yet still give it an A rating. Surely it is worth the money in your mind if it is an A rated product?

Anyway I want one

By TimoGunt on 29 Jun 2010

A list

ive got to say that i agree that it should be on the A list even though its not worth the money they charge. The A list for me is just whats the best product on the market and moneys no object!!

Im defintly a pc fan and wont touch apple products except for the iphone. Even though its got its faults (most of all in my view the no flash and closed system) i still feel its the best product on the market at the moment as painful as it is for me to say that.

Although there is hope and i believe that android will push on to become better than the iphone in a year or two when the software has improved

By martinburman on 29 Jun 2010

The desire is clearly better, as you don't have to be careful how you hold it in order to avoid signal drop! Personally, if I had a phone that expensive I'd hold it in a rather tight grip too! The Desire therefore maintains signal and actually works AS A PHONE! If your grip is wrong, the Apple is merely a Smart iBrick.

By phantombudgie on 29 Jun 2010

Choice!

Whether something is worth the money is determined by the number of people who are prepared to pay. Strict adherence to supply and demand suggests that the iPhone 4 is cheap, after all 1.7Million people were prepared to pay the offered cost.

What is certainly true is that there is now a genuine choice. Both the iPhone and the newest Android phones are very good and the bar has been set a lot higher than could have been imagined just 2-3 years ago. Each phone has it's strengths and weaknesses. It is debatable whether the iPhone should have been A List or just 'Recommended', but I hope the readers could make up their own mind!

By Dannyt on 29 Jun 2010

oh dear.... PC Pro .... how low can you go.

"A few minor issues can't mask the fact that Apple has again produced the most desirable smartphone on the market"
Since when is loss of signal a "minor" issue with a phone?

Sorry, but the original reasons for looking at PCPro for unbiased advice are beginning to die. This site has turned into a joke, with reviewers more interested in courting corporate "sponsors" than providing totalling unbiased views.

If this phone didn't have an Apple badge the review summary would read "Nice styling, good screen, over-priced, fatal signal flaw, no-flash support, restrictive customisation. Avoid."

By CraigieDD on 29 Jun 2010

Signal issue

Ok guys, before the talk turns entirely to us "courting corporate sponsors" with our "biased" views, let's get the signal issue into perspective.

Yes, there is a particular way of holding the iPhone that causes the signal to drop. It's not a comfortable way of holding the phone; in fact we found it requires you to grip unreasonably hard. We could very easily make a YouTube video showing the fault in action, as many people have, but in reality there's not one person at PC Pro who holds a mobile phone in that manner. We've tested two samples and had no issues in real world use.

The internet magnifies problems such as this with unimaginable speed, and it's important to take a step back before diving in with the verdict that the phone is unusable. It's anything but.

You may or may not agree with the review, but the views in it are those of everyone here who's used the phone. It's a fantastic handset, and claiming it isn't just because it was made by Apple is non-sensical. The Desire was the best when we reviewed it; the iPhone 4 has just raised the bar, hence the A List award.

David Bayon
Deputy Reviews Editor

By DavidBayon on 29 Jun 2010

Calm down

This review is no more bias than PC Pro's relentless love of all things Microsoft Office & Adobe - the last 2 issues have been almost wall to wall Office 2010 and Adobe's new monster suite that 90% of the world won't use.

By simonhiscocks on 29 Jun 2010

now a broken proximity sensor

seem there are issues with the proximity sensor now well documented on the apple forums and the inquirer. How can this keep a A star rating with these problems? They maybe fixed with a software update soon....but i thought this was the iphone "its just works". The media apple-love-in... is a joke... yes it maybe the best smartphone on the market...yes it maybe "cool" but when it fails to deliver its primary use this is very poor...please downgrade to has potential to be great but not yet......waiting software update... or case to improve signal

By wennockmh on 29 Jun 2010

Jeee-suss!! I'm an IT professional an I love Apple products (using the iPad right now). People who are open minded enough to try them usually like them. Yes they are expensive, but if you want the best then you have to pay for it. You don't? Then don't! But for chrissakes loosen up
and stop wingeing !

By ChuckNett on 29 Jun 2010

Well...

Accusing the PCPro with all these sins is probably a bit over the top, but on the other hand the reaction is pretty natural - I think it's the first time when a product with such a low "value for money" made to the A-list.

Also, I find the attitude like "it's the best phone and doesn't matter if you can't afford it" deeply flawed. Surely products like Intel Core i7-980X should have made to the A-list then?

By Lomskij on 29 Jun 2010

Could it be a 'Recommeded' product instead?

Instead of the iPhone being an A-listed product right now, just have it rated as 'recommended' and once its had the software updated to fix its (lets say)'teething problems' you could review it again, to then give it an "A-Listed Recommendation"; if it deserved it.
Looking at all the comments made on this review, i think that i can confidently say that this product has had the most negative reaction to review, ever.
Also I guess that if PCPRO keeps the phone as A-Listed, i should cancel my subscription and subscribe to another 'independent' magazine – I doubt that I would be the only person thinking this.

By Greendot on 30 Jun 2010

explanation of review process needed

First let me state I am agnostic wrt Apple iProducts - each to their own.

However, I feel that the majority of the sentement here is down to the drop in scoring quality for the review.

With one of the 3 review criteria only getting 3/6, people are understandibly queying how this can equate to a full 6/6 for overall.

If suddenly it dropped in price, allowing you to give 6/6 for "value for money" - would that then mean it would now get 7/6 or more for overall?

If a product falls short in one of the review criteria, it should not get a 6/6 for overall no matter who makes it.

Please can PCPro cite other exapmles where one of the review criteria only gets 3/6 yet it goes on to get 6/6 overall and trumps a previous 24 star reviewed product.

This implies that either the review is flawed or that the "VFM" criteria is such small part of the overall score that it is in effect meaningless. If this is the case then the wieghting should be explained.

Based on this my opinion of PCPro as a trusted source of reviews has declined!

By Sarcen on 30 Jun 2010

A bit of perspective required methinks

Occam's razor applies here I think.

Either almost all the magazine reviewers and blog reviewers are bias, or the iPhone is very good.

PCPro seems to be coming in for a bit of unfair criticism here. It would be interesting to see how many of the people leaving comments actually own the iPhone 4 and thus can actually do what the reviewer has done, speak from experience rather than from commentary.

I think it is good and proper that people are entitled to leave their opinions and I'm sure that PCPro value the input however, surely people can't honestly believe a review should be changed just because they think otherwise. Pandering to such complaints (and in some cases threats) would definitely render the reviewer guilty of exactly the crime many of the commentators here are alleging.

It is important that the reader doesn't shirk their own responsibility, i.e. you should read any article with a critical eye and consider the evidence put forward by the reviewer / journalist.

I do have an iPhone 4 and to date have suffered none of the problems that have been circulating, and I do agree with a majority of the reviewer's comments (not all, but in some areas I'm more forgiving, and in some I'm less). I also had an HTC desire for a time and think it is a great phone. If I had to choose between the two, I would go for the iPhone everytime, and, just to make it clear, I do not like Apple, nor do I like Apple's approach to the way it locks down use of the iPhone, but at the moment, its the best show in town, in my humble opinion.

Please can we make the debate constructive rather than just hurling abuse one way or the other. It's clear that passions are raised pro or anti the product but in the end, I would like to think PCPro readers are capable of fairly sensible and reasoned debate.

By Mistermcee on 30 Jun 2010

value award and 'A' List

I would also add that there is a difference between the best product in town and the best value. Most people would agree Supercars are 'A' list items, but I wouldn't say that any are value for money necessarily.

By Mistermcee on 30 Jun 2010

re value award and 'A' List

But are supercars the best product in town?

Surely they just exel at being very fast and looking vry good. That does not equate to best product in town! I leave you to draw comparisons between this above statement and the iPhone4!

By Sarcen on 30 Jun 2010

value award and 'A' List

I would also add that there is a difference between the best product in town and the best value. Most people would agree Supercars are 'A' list items, but I wouldn't say that any are value for money necessarily.

By Mistermcee on 30 Jun 2010

re value award and 'A' List

But are supercars the best product in town?

Surely they just exel at being very fast and looking vry good. That does not equate to best product in town! I leave you to draw comparisons between this above statement and the iPhone4!

By Sarcen on 30 Jun 2010

Sarcen, literalism aside, my point still stands.

By Mistermcee on 30 Jun 2010

re value award and 'A' List

But are supercars the best product in town?

Surely they just exel at being very fast and looking vry good. That does not equate to best product in town! I leave you to draw comparisons between this above statement and the iPhone4!

By Sarcen on 30 Jun 2010

re value award and 'A' List

Consistency please - why in that case there still things like 750GB Samsung HDD on the A list? Shouldn't it be replaced with some SSD long time ago?

By Lomskij on 30 Jun 2010

rating System

We're still waiting for an explanation of how something could possibly get 6 stars overall from 15 out of a possible 18 stars. Simple maths says it should be 5 overall. Or am I missing something here?

By CraigieDD on 30 Jun 2010

Oh dear PC PRO

After reading this article I see that we are now not only called Apple Pro now but obviously we are under the spell of the Apple machine.

You are meant to be unbiased here but you have awarded an A-List to a phone that at this moment in time with the flaws listed and being reported in the press is inferior to the Desire.

I am sorry PC PRO but where I used to use you A-List as a great bench mark, no more can I trust it as one.

By jcnewman83 on 30 Jun 2010

Overall ratings...

CraigieDD - generally you're right. In most circumstances we simply calculate the average to arrive at the an overall rating, but we don't always use the raw average.

Where other factors outweigh the one score that would pull an overall score up or down, we give ourselves the flexibility to give a product the rating we feel it deserves, depending on the circumstances.

In this case we felt that, despite the fact it's expensive, the iPhone 4 is still worth the full six stars overall due to the strength of the rest of the package.

A good example of this elsewhere in our reviewing would be netbooks. We couldn't ever give a netbook a high star rating for performance, but we don't let that drag down the overall rating.

Take the HP Mini 210 (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/357511/hp-
mini-210) - an excellent product, well designed and conceived; one of the best netbooks around. Following a strict mathematical average would give it 4 stars; we feel it's a five star netbook and give it that score overall.

Hope that clears things up.

Jonathan Bray,
Reviews editor,
PC Pro.

By JonBray on 30 Jun 2010

re Overall ratings...

Sorry but this fails to restore my confidence and probably no one elses.

In the reviewers opinion it may (rightfully) be superior to the Desire, but given the current problems listed (real problems, as Apple acknowledges them) and the poor VFM rating, I do not feel it warrants an A list rating nor its bumping up from 5 to 6 stars for overall.

By Sarcen on 30 Jun 2010

Poor review

Got to add my feelings here, I don't dislike Apple but I do fail do understand their fan boys and the hype. But however I look at this it is not an A list phone. There clearly seems to be an issue with the signal even if PC Pro's test models were ok, Apple seem to be accepting it. I also don't think the screen is superior to the Desire. However the saddest thing is that I expected PC Pro to A list it anyway, they even joke how they cant stop mentioning Apple in every part of the podcast!

By huwparry on 30 Jun 2010

Odd A list

Normally I've stood by PCPro's choices but this has to be a bad mistake. A phone that has signal problems when humans touch them "too much" is ridiculous!! It's even worse than the "cut-n-paste" stupidity! By failing at it's most basic task, i.e. as a TELEPHONE, the iPhone 4 should've been seen as an epic fail... yet PC Pro rewards them. By all means, if they resolve it then put it at the top... If any other company bought out a product which failed at the most basic function, I doubt very much that PC Pro would've A-listed it. You've become the Tony Blair to Apple's Bush!!

As a respected magazine that supposidly reviews hardware with due care and to ignore hype, this is a disappointment.

By mcmpro1 on 1 Jul 2010

Not Windows Pro...

The magazine is PC Pro, not Windows Pro. That was one of the things that really annoyed me in the first decade or so of PC Pro's existence, it only covered Windows.

Linux and Apple were taboo, so it didn't really cover the full spectrum of the PC world. I am much happier now that it does also give other non-Windows manufacturers some attention.

Apple != Professionals? I am a system administrator for a Windows Server network, with Exchange Server and around 100 Windows clients.

We use BlackBerrys and Apple iPhones to access the Exchange server on the road - the iPhone provides a much better environment than my old Windows Mobile 'phone or the Blackberrys.

Likewise, with ActiveSync testing software, VPN connection and RDP & Citrix client, I can do most things I need to keep the servers running smoothly from my iPhone, when I am on the move.

Likewise, at home, I have Windows 7 and Linux machines and an iMac.

I switched away from Windows with XP, I just never got on with it, using Linux as my main desktop from 2003 through 2006, when I bought an iMac, because they were excellent value for money, unfortunately, their pricing hasn't changed, whilst the rest of the market has sunk by over 50%!

I was looking at a new MacBook Pro, an excellent machine, but even after the upgrade to Core i technology, they don't have any quad core models. I ended up buying a Sony Core i7 laptop with 8GB RAM and 1920x1080 display for less than half the price of an equivalently specced MBP.

Next time around, if the MBP is reasonably priced, I would seriously consider it as a replacement for the Sony (which is excellent BTW).

Some of us professionals are more open to the "best" tool for the job, as opposed to the "best tool for the job, as long as it doesn't have this or that logo on it!"

@mcmpro1 , they mentioned the antenne problem and said that it is incredibly uncomfortable to replicate and doesn't affect the 'phone in normal use. Have you actually tried one, to see if it is affected by the way you hold it? I know I haven't.

When the contract on my iPhone 3GS comes up for renewal next year, I will research the market and buy the best 'phone that I can, regardless of what logo is on the case.

It might be an iPhone 4, or it might be an Android, or heaven knows, a Windows Mobile 7?

By big_D on 1 Jul 2010

Get over it!

Wow! a pro Apple review (again) seems to have got everyone really steamed up!

Thing is, u can't deny them (Apple) however much you dislike the poacher-turned-gamekeeper nature of their business. I still only have iPhone 3Gs, but now with IOS4, and it's absolutely brilliant. I will buy iPhone4 as soon as it is available on the strength of this review.

Windows, PC, Apple? Leave the corporate politics to others. This site gives me tech information. I applaud it.

By JeremyH56 on 1 Jul 2010

Get one before you all judge

I've never had an Iphone before and the Iphone 4 is the first phone i've even bought on release.
I can make the phone drop its signal strength but only by gripping it tightly in my left hand. I've never done this before with any phone so why should i start to grip it like i'm trying to squeeze it to a pulp just to make it drop its signal?
I'm not an Apple devotee as all i've had so far is an Ipod Photo which is now some 5 years old.
I think the new Iphone is great and that is from owning many different mobiles over the years. Some of which were from Nokia which has had a pop at Apple for the above problem. All I can say to Nokia is - People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Some of their handsets i've had the mispleasure to own are complete handfuls of crap!
So quit knocking the Iphone 4 until you have actually owned it and not just tried it in the shop!!

By nomadian on 1 Jul 2010

get one? Sure!

iPhone 4 is definitely a nonsense,too expensive.
Let this device in the hands of fashion victims, ops, iFashion victims

By mrponti on 1 Jul 2010

Yes I use apple

big_D: my girlfriend has one and she's waiting for a replacement. But stocks are out so expecting 3 weeks. The problem is acknowledged by customers AND apple so I don't really see any reason why people are questioning if it (the problem) exists!? I've seen this problem and obviously enough of others have too!!

For me, it's not about PC-phile or mac-phile. I use macbook pros and mac pros, as well as pc's and get on fine with them. I use blackberry cause as a communication device it's faster and more efficient... and cheaper (especially abroad). the A status seems to be quantity over quality. the "i" bit might be great but the "phone" bit is not the best.

By mcmpro1 on 1 Jul 2010

Other points

One thing that swung me away from Sony Ericsson to a 3GS was the fact that the Apple has a glass screen & not one of those horrid resistive ones you see on HTCs & most other so-called smartphones. I've seen so many with virtually unreadable displays or ones that have peeling screensavers.
A salient issue with all the iPhones is very mediocre RF - that determines how good the core function is - making & receiving calls. God help anyone living in marginal signal conditions!
One issue the review failed to address was if the iPhone4 was any better than previous models at sharing information or files with other phones.

By busb11 on 1 Jul 2010

@mcmpro1

Fair enough... From the reports I've been reading, it seems 50-50, with half being affected and half not being able to replicate the problem.

That said, my 3GS kept locking up, when I first got it. After sending it back twice (and T-Mobile telling me there wasn't a fault), I stormed into the shop and was loud about poor service, they sent it to Apple instead of the authorise German repair centre and they confirmed it was duff. I got a new unit and it has been fine ever since.

By big_D on 1 Jul 2010

Signal issues

If you want to read a very good explanation of why some iPhones appear to have the problem and some don't, try this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-re
view/2

In short, don't jump to conclusions based on the five bars at the top of your phone.

By DavidBayon on 1 Jul 2010

Interesting indeed

That's a very interesting article at anandtech and it definitely makes things much clearer.

What is worrying is that even holding the phone "normally", you can still lose up to 20db of signal, which can be a real pain in the areas with weak coverage. T-mobile/3 network on Hayling island, for instance.

By Lomskij on 1 Jul 2010

iPhad

Well, the signal problem should have removed this phone from the A-list IMO. However, it will be interesting to see what PC PRO make of the Samsung Galaxy S and Dell Streak which are bother cheaper than the iPhone 4 but have either better or larger screens than the Desire. The big advantage of Android (over a closed-shop Apple offering) is there too, of course. Flash support will be on the cards soon with Android 2.2, which will hopefully make these new phones kick the iPhone off the top spot. We'll see...

By stefani on 1 Jul 2010

Bad Design

I'm left-handed so i'm going to choose an smart phone that doesn't omit 1/10 of its target users.

By Arcavexx on 1 Jul 2010

I Phone 4GS

PC Pro you keep doing what you are doing and do not change the way you are doing it and my subsrciption will continue. To all you others people making these comments grow up please.
As IT Professionals you of all people should know, The end user decides which phone he/she wants and this is based on individual user requirements not the opinion of the magazines that review them, who just review and test the products and base their results on the test carried out from this. I believe that both Android, Windows and others manufacturers and software houses will now pick up the gauntlet and try and better their phones thereby driving the market and the progress of phone technology and applications forward which is good for everybody using the devices.

By Fridge24 on 1 Jul 2010

Thanks Johnathan

Thanks for clearing up your review process. Will factor this into account when I'm checking out future reviews of products. Obviously, there is now a matter of trusting the opinion of the professionals involved as well as the star ratings.

By CraigieDD on 1 Jul 2010

re Thanks Johnathan

I agree with CraigieDD.
I will now have to pay more attention to the ratings given and may have to read between the lines.

By Sarcen on 1 Jul 2010

Yes I use apple

big_D: my girlfriend has one and she's waiting for a replacement. But stocks are out so expecting 3 weeks. The problem is acknowledged by customers AND apple so I don't really see any reason why people are questioning if it (the problem) exists!? I've seen this problem and obviously enough of others have too!!

For me, it's not about PC-phile or mac-phile. I use macbook pros and mac pros, as well as pc's and get on fine with them. I use blackberry cause as a communication device it's faster and more efficient... and cheaper (especially abroad). the A status seems to be quantity over quality. the "i" bit might be great but the "phone" bit is not the best.

By mcmpro1 on 1 Jul 2010

Fridge24... please...

Forums are debates and comments and questioning the forum itself is as legit as talking about products.

"Grow up" is such juvenile argument. No-one here was being rude and insulting.

By mcmpro1 on 1 Jul 2010

advert?

I use AdBlockPlus, but I still fell for this Ruckus advertisement!

By jonathandk2 on 1 Jul 2010

An interesting development - Apple/AT&T sued

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/01/appl
e_sued_over_iphone_4_reception_issues.html

from the above link -

Numerous lawsuits were filed this week against Apple, as a number of consumers hope to take the company to task over reception issues that arise with the new iPhone 4 when the left side of the device is covered with a hand.

"The iPhone 4 manifests design and manufacturing defects that were known to Defendants before it was released which were not disclosed to consumers, namely, a connection problem caused by the iPhone 4's antenna configuration that makes it difficult or impossible to maintain a connection to AT&T's network," the California complaint reads.

By Sarcen on 1 Jul 2010

Tips for Left handers...

Simply rotate the phone 180 degrees!
I'm a genius, do I get a job at the iStore now please?

By ricksters on 1 Jul 2010

CFCDK

The 4 is truly rubbish, the antenna incorporated in the alu-frame is bound to create problems. Lots of engineers around the world pointed that out long before the 4 came to market. They were proven right, signal cut-off happens very often and is laughable considering the overpricing and overhyping. Apple (Job) just reply to dissatisfied customers; "just hold the phone differently" That's really taking the signal issue serious. Come on Apple you have a serious problem on your hands, please respond accordingly.

By Drdich on 1 Jul 2010

CFCDK

The 4 is truly rubbish, the antenna incorporated in the alu-frame is bound to create problems. Lots of engineers around the world pointed that out long before the 4 came to market. They were proven right, signal cut-off happens very often and is laughable considering the overpricing and overhyping. Apple (Job) just reply to dissatisfied customers; "just hold the phone differently" That's really taking the signal issue serious. Come on Apple you have a serious problem on your hands, please respond accordingly.

By Drdich on 1 Jul 2010

Signal problem predicted before release

Check out this link referring to a Danish professor and expert in mobile signals
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/26/iphone-4-antenn
a-problems-were-predicted-on-june-10-by-danish-pr/

By Drdich on 1 Jul 2010

*popcorn*

By rozman on 2 Jul 2010

Here is a more realistic review of the iPhone4.

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/07/02/review_smart
phone_apple_iphone_4/

By Sarcen on 2 Jul 2010

Fanboys are in the minority these days

Its funny to read so many comments about Apple fanboys whenever a new Apple product is launched. It appears in the mainstream media at least that the classic Jobs-worshipping fanboy is now in the minority compared to those who can't wait to slag off Apple and their products at the first opportunity, often without having used them.

Apple have become the new Microsoft in one regard, where there's a large group of keyboard warriors who can't wait to bash their every move.

Possibly more annoying is the stereotyping by this group that anyone who buys an Apple product is just doing it to be "cool". I know numerous IT consultants who've been in the business for 20 or 30 years who have moved to Apple kit in a big way over the last 10 years or so.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

By Ascender on 3 Jul 2010

Fanboys vs Applephobe

tried it, didn't like it!

By mcmpro1 on 3 Jul 2010

The quoted price for an HTC Desire seems rather high. I got the one that I'm sending this email from, free with a £17/month, two year contract from three.co.UK. That's only £408 by my reckoning.

Vince.

By vjosullivan on 5 Jul 2010

"Please can we make the debate constructive rather than just hurling abuse one way or the other. It's clear that passions are raised pro or anti the product but in the end, I would like to think PCPro readers are capable of fairly sensible and reasoned debate.

"Possibly more annoying is the stereotyping by this group that anyone who buys an Apple product is just doing it to be "cool". I know numerous IT consultants who've been in the business for 20 or 30 years who have moved to Apple kit in a big way over the last 10 years or so.

Don't knock it until you've tried it."

You're both sycophantic apple fanboys just doing it to be cool

By dodge1963 on 5 Jul 2010

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

I wonder if the same level of criticism would be levelled at PCPro if they hadn't A-Listed the new iPhone?

By Peza1 on 5 Jul 2010

re Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Peza1, I believe the majority of complaints here are just for that very reason. Not that the product was bad (leaving aside the ongoing issues), but that when one of the review criteria only got 50% how it could beat a product with full marks across the board; and how it was possible to get a full overall score.

The logic and final scoring seemed so wrong for a PC Pro review.

By Sarcen on 6 Jul 2010

I've been a reader of PCPro now for nearly 10 years and the one thing you can rely on is that technology moves on. One piece of tech that was "awesome" and A-Listed without question can soon be replaced by another and not always because the price has come down but because it does the job better.
I admire PCPro's review for stating that the iPhone is expensive but still see it as the best at it's job.

By Peza1 on 6 Jul 2010

iphone4 is better if add this app

Delicate and firm industrial design,bran-new internal structure,High-resolution screen,High pixel cameras and so

on.it seems that iphone4 is so perfect. i must to say ,iphone is better than Previous versions in many aspects.

Especially its appearance design, I really like. but on vide formats that can be palied directly on iphone is

still limited, and iphone also not be installed a video conversion,which made some trouble for me seeing video.
i think ,i just use ANEESOFT iphone free video convert continuely which is a good and functional video convert

tools.you also can download free trial. http://www.aneesoft.com/win-iphone-video-converter
.html

By xiaoa on 7 Jul 2010

A-List? or not

I notice that it is sometime since this review and it has still not replaced the Desire on the A-list.

Oversight or having 2nd thoughts?

By Sarcen on 11 Jul 2010

Much better than my old iPhone!

Looks like weve got some real Apple haters on here. I've had the old iPhone 3g for 18 months and now have the new iPhone 4 and 'I LOVE IT'. Miles better than my old one, no problems with signal loss & a beauty to look at. Maybe more of you guys should actually try it before slagging everything Apple off!

By bigfirestarter on 12 Jul 2010

Another independant review cannot recommend the iPhone 4

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/
07/apple-iphone-4-antenna-issue-iphone4-problems-d
ropped-calls-lab-test-confirmed-problem-issues-sig
nal-strength-att-network-gsm.html

By Sarcen on 13 Jul 2010

What this review is really saying...

Is that there are much better phones out there already carrying the technology "heralded" by Apple.
Facetime - I ask you! So now Apple have invented video calling as well eh?
Clearly, reading between the lines of this review, there are much better phones out there but if PC Pro dares to suggest this then is it the case that the mag fears Apple won't supply them with products in the future?

By taffia77 on 13 Jul 2010

What this review is really saying...

Is that there are much better phones out there already carrying the technology "heralded" by Apple.
Facetime - I ask you! So now Apple have invented video calling as well eh?
Clearly, reading between the lines of this review, there are much better phones out there but if PC Pro dares to suggest this then is it the case that the mag fears Apple won't supply them with products in the future?

By taffia77 on 13 Jul 2010

What this review is really saying...

Is that there are much better phones out there already carrying the technology "heralded" by Apple.
Facetime - I ask you! So now Apple have invented video calling as well eh?
Clearly, reading between the lines of this review, there are much better phones out there but if PC Pro dares to suggest this then is it the case that the mag fears Apple won't supply them with products in the future?

By taffia77 on 13 Jul 2010

We want objective reviews

It seems like someone is getting paid to do reviews on apple products five star that is too much!It does not do a lot to deserve five star.

By rgchihanga on 15 Jul 2010

Please review this as...

I now feel you should review the ratings given... surely now you are getting a Free Bumper Case it should get another star in the value for money category!!! Or maybe, just maybe it should be correctly rated at 5 stars - you could still make it your A list phone, but at least the overall rating would compute corrrectly.

By Sarcen on 16 Jul 2010

To be fair

you will spend so much time enjoying the apps, that you wont have time to be a left handed caller!

When is the next version of the A-List page going to appear?

Will my subscription be reduced next year now?

By dave_mcmahon on 10 Sep 2010

The iphone4 is all you could ever want in a phone and more...the only problem is the price. But you can get it for free by visiting this website: http://apple.freebiejeebies.co.uk/405308

All you have to do is sign up to love film for their 14day free trial and rent a film, then send it back and cancel your account before the end of the trial to make sure you don't get charged. Then get some friends to do the same. I did this and got a free ipod...so it really does work!

By david12345 on 15 Sep 2010

For those Apple hatred out there

1st of all, I owned an Apple IPhone4 and Desire now

2nd thing would be, I rate the IPhone 4 as a better phone than Desire.

I used many phones out there, and I can tell you the Apple IPhone 4 is a clear winner. Of course the HTC Desire is great but in general IPhone 4 is my prefered choice.

I think there are a lot of people that doesn't use an iPhone before so they don't know about it.

I'm using both Desire and iPhone 4 and the thing I want say:

Desire battery is horrible low
Desire web browsing is still not as smooth as the ios4
Desire android application is lousy
Desire android os is not as smooth as apple in view PDF for my work
iPhone 4 is troublesome with iTunes

So all those mentioned about is the pro and cons of Apple iPhone and HTC Desire. But I would give the winner to IPhone 4.

For those iPhone Apple haters, use it then you can give a bad review, if you have not use it. Keep quiet.

By metallica_nicky on 8 Oct 2010

Not a good phone, but the apps!

How anyone can call the camera "good" I don't know.
The 'phone is rather poor and rather idiosyncratic to use compared to the Luddite Nokias I am used to as well.
However, for a Billy No Mates like me, when a phone call is a once a month experience, this is no problem.

Where the iphone excels is in the applications. There are some good applications that you just cannot get on Android. the only trouble is that using the screen, 3G connection and gps will kill the battery in about 4 hours!

By facade on 9 Jan 2011

Addendum: bluetooth and speaker

I forgot, the bluetooth doesn't work properly either, it is a simple hands free and music player, no file transfer.
There is only a mono speaker at the bottom, which does sound good however, I miss the stereo speakers on my N97, in landscape mode you do notice.

Due to firware limitations, you cannot have your own custom SMS tone, but custom ringtones are now possible with IOS4.

By facade on 9 Jan 2011

Reviewers miss the point of a phone (you should be able to use it to make calls)

Whilst the iphones are OK as pure gadgets the point the reviewers keep missing is they are great for everything expect making phone calls and the accessing the internet.

Using a phone as much as I do for my business the iphone is a complete disaster. Countless dropped calls daily. Large swathes of the country where there is no signal at all, including major cities. Internet access is even worse. London and Birmingham are no better than remote areas most of the time.

Have too many apps on the iphone and the whole thing chugs like a ZX80. The Geniuses at the iphone shop recommend removing most of the apps to stop it chugging. Genius!!!

I'm on my 6th iphone on an o2 contract because when I question o2 they say they can do nothing and I need to go to the apple shop. The Geniuses in the Apple shop say the data shows poor call / data quality but it must be a dodgy phone and give me a replacement.

I'm some sort of unlucky dude if I have 6 bad phones on the bounce, what are the odds?

I've owned an iphone for nearly two years and as soon as my current contract finishes in August I'm not getting another one.

If you're going to review a phone at least make sure it can make and receive calls.

DOH!!!

By sisfis on 9 Jun 2011

Samsung Galaxy S II now A-Listed

May 2011
iPhone 4 has now been toppled by the Galaxy S II

By TheBlackSkunk on 7 Jul 2011