Apple snooping plot thickens - iPhone tracker was patented

Apple and Jobs caught out in massive lie!

By qpw3141 on 28 Apr 2011

Apple patents foot in mouth...

Oops. Tough to deny you were doing something, which you documented your intention of doing two years ago.
Why lie? Why not just say "we put stuff in the firmware to collect this data for applications we planned to develop later, but never implemented - we'll take it out or allow users to switch it off in General Settings in the next iOS update" then everyone would have know where they stood.
Now Apple have to take their foot out of their mouth before they can speak.

By cheysuli on 28 Apr 2011

Getting a bit ugly this...

I initially sort of wrote this story off as just a lack of a check box somewhere to gain user consent (such as you get on Android phones), but this new element starts to make it look intentionally hidden. Apple really are the new Microsoft, not only in terms of aggressiveness but now it appears in terms of lax security.

By Aspicus on 28 Apr 2011

Maybe this is how the iphone 4 launch commercial should have gone:

"On June 24th, Apple Computer will introduce iPhone 4. And you'll see why 2010 will be like "1984.""

That advert must be a kick in the nuts to jobs these days considering what they've been doing.

By tech3475 on 28 Apr 2011

Benefit of the doubt?

Could this just be a symptom of how broken patents are in the USA?

Maybe even discounted ideas get registered to build up a war-chest with which to counter sue rivals?

I'm no great fan of the way Apple operates, and I think more likely they realised that location aware advertising will be a big earner and wanted to "tool up" for the inevitable law suits ahead

By rsw75 on 28 Apr 2011

Not a smoking gun ...

I'm quite happy to bash Apple when they deserve it, but in fairness two things should be pointed out:

1. Just because Apple have a patent for doing something does not prove they are actually doing it.

2. Apple have said the data in question is not actually the user's location going from the handset to Apple, but cell tower locations going from Apple to the handset. This makes sense in terms of how AGPS (assisted GPS) works.

While this would give Apple a general idea of your location over time, users of Cell Phones (even the most basic, dumb ones) should be aware that their location is being tracked by the cell phone operator to cell resolution (a few hundred metres in cities up to a kilometres in low population areas. This is required to make the system work, but the EU has mandated that this data be retained for a significant time for law enforcement purposes.

I would be concerned if Apple was tracking my location at GPS resolution, but I already know if I want to keep my general whereabouts secret, I need to turn my cellphone off!

By JohnAHind on 28 Apr 2011

Not a smoking gun ...

I'm quite happy to bash Apple when they deserve it, but in fairness two things should be pointed out:

1. Just because Apple have a patent for doing something does not prove they are actually doing it.

2. Apple have said the data in question is not actually the user's location going from the handset to Apple, but cell tower locations going from Apple to the handset. This makes sense in terms of how AGPS (assisted GPS) works.

While this would give Apple a general idea of your location over time, users of Cell Phones (even the most basic, dumb ones) should be aware that their location is being tracked by the cell phone operator to cell resolution (a few hundred metres in cities up to a kilometres in low population areas. This is required to make the system work, but the EU has mandated that this data be retained for a significant time for law enforcement purposes.

I would be concerned if Apple was tracking my location at GPS resolution, but I already know if I want to keep my general whereabouts secret, I need to turn my cellphone off!

By JohnAHind on 28 Apr 2011

Patent?

How do Apple patent something that was already in existence in 2009? My last HTC device had Location services "from wifi and/or other mobile networks" with a switch to turn it on if you wanted it.

By UserCan on 28 Apr 2011

@UserCan

But htc weren't storing that information and providing an API for third parties to access the information to get more accurate information about the user to target them for marketing purposes...

By big_D on 29 Apr 2011

@ JohnAHind

I would be concerned if Apple was tracking my location at GPS resolution, but I already know if I want to keep my general whereabouts secret, I need to turn my cellphone off!

AND TAKE OUT THE BATTERY!!??

I was told this by a virgin engineer. Apparently the phone still communicates with the mast even when it is turned off.

By roberttrebor on 29 Apr 2011

Patent? What is going on?

How on earth can someone be dumb enough to apply for let alone issues a patent for something as prior art as keeping old bus or train tickets to show where you were. Even an old passport is likely to have stamps showing where you went.
So we have two issues here, a really stupid patent issuing organisation and a really dumb set of application writers/sellers/API creators who were so keen to try to monetise things that they failed to see that hidden activities were likely to catch them out. Surely these have to be joint winners of the Darwin award for stupidity?
There are many, many people who have good reasons for not wanting or specifically being at risk of having their locations tracked and then made easily available. Thus users need to know what they are buying and how it may intentionally or accidentally conflict with their needs.
Just for the record, I need a mobile phone for telephone calls and with a battery that lasts for as long as possible, dummy phones often fail those basic tests. Oh, and yes I know that the network can reveal location data when ordered by a court or authorised authority, but not because I leave a trail when I try to charge the darned thing.

By Jonesr18 on 30 Apr 2011

Sympathy for corporations

As I understand it, Apple are saying that the phone has to send Apple a very general idea of its location so it (Apple) can send down a file of the locations of cell towers in this area. This is used to enable the phone to triangulate its location when no GPS signal is available and to assist the GPS chip. This data is cached on the phone to avoid unnecessary data traffic. When the phone is backed up to a PC, this data also gets backed up, but it is not sent back to Apple and is in any case only the location of cell towers, not the location of the phone. Note that you CAN encrypt this backup with a setting in iTunes if you choose to do this. Arguably it ought to be encrypted on the phone too (arguably all the data on the phone ought to be encrypted). Of all the data held on a smartphone, this is not what I would be most concerned about!

Your phone checks in periodically when it is switched on and not in airplane mode. This is obviously necessary because the network needs to know which cell tower to transmit incoming calls from. Some phones make it hard to be sure they are really switched off, but I do not believe any transmit in aircraft mode (that being the point) and they cannot be tracked if they do not transmit (but they conceptually could still log location and transfer this log at a later time).

As for patents, yes they are dumb, particularly the way they work in the US. However given that they are what they are, companies are prudent to file as many as they can for defensive purposes. In the extreme case, Apple could credibly argue they filed this patent because they disapprove of location tracking and they wanted to use it to protect their customers from other people doing it.

By JohnAHind on 30 Apr 2011

Apple lies to customers --- meh!

The usual crowd of sheep will just blip this out of their collective psyche and keep on handing over their money.

(Calling others "Microserfs" while doing so, oh the irony!)

By Lacrobat on 1 May 2011