Pub fined for illegal downloads over Wi-Fi

Could it be that the judges involved don't understand i) copyright law and/or ii) the way internet access works?

If I were a landlord with a wireless hotspot, I would be unplugging the router as we speak...

By piphil on 30 Nov 2009

Or...

That the hotspot providers should keep logs of what people do on their network.

Here, in Germany, if you offer a hotspot (and that includes private households who don't use WEP or WPA protection on their wi-fi) need to keep logs of who connected at what time and what they accessed, otherwise they will be held liable for any illegal activities on their connection.

By big_D on 30 Nov 2009

I don't know the specifics for this case, but it may be that the landlord knowingly allowed or actively encouraged people to make illegal downloads.

If this were the case it would be fair. Just as if you allowed a friend to download illegal content on your home wifi.

Of course, if this is just a case of a random member of public doing it without the landlord knowing, then this is a serious matter for concern that could spell the end of free wifi access in the UK.

I've lived in dictatorships before (And I mean full dictatorship not semi dictatorships like in the UK) where you have to hand over your ID card before using internet in a cafe or bar, and I'd rather go without in the UK than hand over my ID.

With the UK system who knows what could happen.

By Perfectblue97 on 30 Nov 2009

So are they going to arrest every landlord that sells alcohol to the under 18s?

No, thought not.

The whole internet copyright infringement nonsense is an affront to common sense!
That's a larger fine than you'd get for rape or vehicular manslaughter!

This country is being legislated and bought by corporations.
Justice for the rich!

By cheysuli on 30 Nov 2009

Unbelievable... Here's a funny thing!

Here's a funny thing!

They don't fine car manufacturers if they produce a car that someone else uses to commit crime.

They don't fine landlords for residents who're breaking the law.

They don't fine gun manufacturers if someone is murdered by their guns!

So why, why WHY should this Landlord suffer the consequences of a patron's criminality? - Hell, I dare you to find a pub in Britain that tracks every users activity and blocks the illegal, even proxy based or packet encrypted traffic...

This landlord must have been in on the act to be fined, else this is insanity, frankly.

By Genesis on 30 Nov 2009

Rumours and Selective Reporting

The extreme vagueness of this story, with the apparent reluctance of the Cloud to name the pub or be specific about the details, suggests to me that this is an isolated case with particular circumstances that probably don't set any sort of legal precedent. We all know how fond these pressure groups are of using sabre-rattling, distorted statistics, and innuendo as a means of trying to frighten the public away from contemplating illegal downloads. This case sounds extremely dodgy to me, and if the pub landlord really got fined for the activities reported, he or she must have had a really rubbish lawyer.

By Noghar on 30 Nov 2009

Maybe the Pub "failed to observe due diligence"?

I am guessing that the responsibility lays with the Network Owner (here the Pub) because they failed to observe "due diligence" to prevent said copyright breech (ie a download) taking place; but how do you secure a wireless network from this? Presumably by preventing all big-ish single file Downloads.....?

This would impact serious business users (spreadsheets, presentations etc)

I guess they could block the known "bad" sites, like Piratebay, but many others change and move about relatively quickly,others like BitTorrent use multiple peer-to-peer sharing, often only pulling a small piece of the download from multiple "hosts", making it extremely difficult to block them locally (in the pub), unless the provider (here The Cloud) can offer this as a contractual value add service to Pubs, like AV software using regularly updated "blacklists" the way schools do, but then TheCloud risks itself being sued or having contractual claims against it if, despite their blocking, illegal downloading still occurs.

All looks very dodgy to me, legally....

By stampy on 30 Nov 2009

So does this mean that the Royal Mail will be fined for delivering illegal material through the post, or that BT will be fined when torrorists use their lines to talk to each other - of course not, there must be more to this story than is being published, perhaps the landlord had a movie night/lockin where he/she downloaded a showed a movie to show the customers while making a significant profit out the additional booze - now that would be grounds for being sued

By pauld1024 on 30 Nov 2009

Legal experts are baffled by the ruling

They're not the only ones.

I can't imagine the average wi-fi outlet having the time or expertise to trawl through innumerable internet logs looking for possibly illegal material (after all, files are often named in such a way as to hide their true nature).

By Lacrobat on 30 Nov 2009

...

Every colleges and unis are about to be fined millions and cut off the internet access. Goodbye education!

By zeevro on 30 Nov 2009

According to Whom?

Of course the company making this claim is in the business of selling wi-fi points. So perhaps the agenda here is not 'illegal file sharing is bad' but ' give us the contract to run your wifi hotspot or you'll be hijacked by pirates and be fined thousands'. Either way it's hard to trust the source of this 'report' as objective and impartial.

By Noghar on 1 Dec 2009

Smacks of...

...active collusion by the landlord in question or an erroneous judgement that'll get flattened on appeal.

By nichomach0 on 1 Dec 2009

Stop bad computers monitoring P2P activities

Use the freeware program PeerBlock to stop computers from monitoring your p2p activities as well as blocking spyware from known bad sources.
Available from:

http://www.peerblock.com/releases
or
http://www.filehippo.com/download_peerblock/

By Dusty_Trigger on 2 Dec 2009

dearie me luvvies

And then despite all the blocking and lockdown, an avergage customer uses an SSL encrypted link to pull material from a usenet hosting provider such as newshosting....

By alan_lj on 3 Dec 2009

Protection Racket

This could be a protection racket worse than 1920s Chicago.

Hire a guy to go around pubs doing an illegal download.

Then send an 8,000.00 bill to each pub, with evidence of the download.

What an easy way to make lots of money.

By fogtax on 3 Dec 2009