Q&A: How Britain's throwing away its tech heritage

We need more kids taking an interest in technology, wanting to know how it works and how to make it do new things. But it seems that industry and government would rather just have competent workers who cannot cause too much trouble.

By alan_ralph_uk on 10 Feb 2011

We need more kids taking an interest in technology, wanting to know how it works and how to make it do new things. But it seems that industry and government would rather just have competent workers who cannot cause too much trouble.

By alan_ralph_uk on 10 Feb 2011

It's not just schools

Not even the open univercity offer a proper Computer Science degree.

No, you'll get a degree in Visual Basic *facepalm*.

It was the same when I did my GCSE in the mid/late-90s.

Get them listening to the introductionary podcasts from the computer science degree from the university of berkeley or MIT.

That's what computing is all about. Not using Mac OS, Windows, MS Word, Lotus Notes, Word Perfect, MS-DOS or C/PM.

By radicalbyte on 10 Feb 2011

Comparison to Math

GCSE computing is like teaching kids arithmatic with a calculator without ever bothering explaining the number line.

By radicalbyte on 10 Feb 2011

What are most kids going to do with computers when they leave school?
Most will be told what to fetch from the warehouse, or what to cook. Of the rest, most will need to use Excel or Word. Only a very few will end up as programmers because there isn't that much demand for programmers.

I am not saying we shouldn't offer courses for the talented and interested few, but we need to match teaching to the needs of society and the abilities of the students. A large proportion of students struggle with addition and division. For them learning Word and Excel is a major achievement.

The examination system needs to value difficult subjects more highly than easy ones, in order to make them appealing to pupils and schools. Only once this happens will difficult subjects such as programming stand a chance.

By tirons1 on 10 Feb 2011

The closest I ever got to programming in year 9 was an extremely simple HTML webpage (i.e. some hyperlinks and colour).

I personally would like it to be an option, at least for those who want to know how to program (like I did).

I was lucky in a way, I did OCR nationals which at least offered courses like website design so I was able to learn how to use dreamweaver and flash. The course we should have been doing was just Microsoft Access.

Personally though, I think that most students would either struggle or simply not care.

By tech3475 on 10 Feb 2011

IT in schools..

I wouldn't even call it a real subject anymore. When I did an ICT GCSE 6 years ago, the questions on the exam were similar to "What's the safest way to store data?" And a good answer would have been "Back it up on a CD and store it in a fire proof safe"

I agree with radicalbyte.
The fundementals of computers and programming should be taught - not because they can use it in life but because it helps develop the brain.
Being taught how to think logically will let them figure out how to use the software they might end up working with.

By tom502 on 10 Feb 2011

And the other side of the medal is...

I am a Head of ICT at a comprehensive secondary and also an ex software engineer a few years experience under my belt as well as coincidently an alumni of UCL Computer Science department that Dr Black comes from. While I understand the need to keep it viable I think the top universities teach it properly and very little is taught elsewhere. In secondary schools though there are people of all levels and backgrounds whom are not lucky to have a Computer Science department head as mother. Getting them to use basic computer packages for a purpose its an achievement. Asking them to learn computer science and programming would be a waste of time and Dr. Black sounds like a sensationalist. 14 year old that do not know how to multiply numbers together, let alone use Excel to analyse data. And you want to teach them floating points, classes, if statements...really???

By nik_endeavour on 10 Feb 2011

Isn't Dr. Black Missing the Point?

With due respect, I think Dr. Black is missing the point. It's already well documented that the majority of programming work in the UK is being outsourced and former programmers are having to become project managers to survive.

In other words, there isn't the work here even for the programmers we've got. Even if young adults learnt programmming they probably wouldn't get employment from it in the UK.

By MalcolmHegarty on 10 Feb 2011

Computing Contracts go overseas because we don't have the skills

There are few skilled IT personnel available (this pushes the price up) and sends the work elsewhere.

We need real computer science taught and no more excuses. If (as @nik_endevour says) 14 year-old can't multiply, is that a reason to give up and close Britain for business? Or should we not do something about it?
Start by making standards higher and an education worth something once more.
If A Level* (like GCSE's before it) becomes little more than an attendance medal, what point is there in having exams?

If we have the skills we can competitively do the job.
Too many "IT experts" are nothing of the sort and coast through contracts, leaving a mess behind.

By cheysuli on 10 Feb 2011

Seismic divide between Primary and Secondary (Primary wins)

When my kids went to Primary School, they learned all the basics of a computer and how to use one in Years 5 and 6. It was actually up to the level they didn't reach again until four years later in Secondary school.

If there was less dumbing down, and more expectation and belief that kids can achieve in Secondary Schools, the problem would be a lot less severe. At the moment there seems to be a 'dead zone' for the first three years of Secondary (Years 7 to 9) which is wasting potential.

By SwissMac on 10 Feb 2011

When I lived in Japan, the local pre-school had their children playing with programable robotic toys. At 5 years old, they were constructing simple instruction sets on PC's and downloading them to their toy. By the time they were in what we would call Primary school, just about all of them were using notebooks for all their work, both at school and at home, plus every single one of them did further studying in their own time.

By Ex_Sailor on 10 Feb 2011

School Teachers

It's people like nik_endeavour that show is what is wrong with our school system these days, why we have slipped from the top 10 to 28th position in the world.
Kids are being given a shoddy education right the way through their secondary education, leaving them functionally illiterate after 12 years of education.
The company I work for is staffed by a majority of foreign workers,not through choice but because there are too few skilled British people - not just in IT.
We must set higher standards for the kids, there is no other way around it. Those for whom an academic education is not suitable should be given the chance of doing something useful with their time (that doesn't involve such esoterica as multiplication). Then the rest can be pushed harder and faster. Streaming is the only way we as a country are going to get our kids working to the best of their abilities. Maybe we should return to the education system of the 50s and 60s when we as a country produced some of the best engineering and science brains in the world.

By 959ARN on 10 Feb 2011

Hmmm blame the teachers its easy

@959ARN
The reason we have slipped from 10th to 28th was targets and the cheap and easy course set up to make schools look good in league tables. But I guess its easy to blame people that swim against the tide of disrespect, and sedentary life coupled with parenting hostility towards teachers. Don't worry the 50s Education is coming back with the new English Baccalaureate. The UK lost the edge because there is no ambition anymore. That's why the other countries are edging. I

By nik_endeavour on 10 Feb 2011

I didn't get taught

computing of any flavour while in school, and I have been a working programmer, on a variety of platforms, for a couple of decades now. The best programmers, whom I have encountered, were the natural problem solvers (engineers and the like) and most certainly _not_ those with formal IT qualifications and backgrounds.
We are not falling behind in the world of computing because our teaching of computing is poor, we are falling behind because our _entire_ education system has slipped, all in the interest of maintaining grade stats.
Great shame.

By PaleRider on 10 Feb 2011

Nicole
The makeover and glasses aren't doing it for me!

By stokegabriel on 11 Feb 2011

Quote
"Just simple things, so kids understand what an algorithm is, how a computer takes instructions, how a computer works"
That would rule out half of our IT dept!!

By stokegabriel on 11 Feb 2011

Hacking is rarely the answer

Programming is the language of problem solving. To teach programming (properly) is no more about a career in programming than teaching Mathematics implies a career in accountancy. Using the right resources + good teaching, programming can encourage challenging thinking, creativity, discipline etc. Go back and read all that was written about LOGO etc.

This isnt about whether ICT or Computer Science it's about both - but through a differentiated curriculum. This is 2011 after all and we can use IT to deliver such flexibility.

Neither is the answer just about teachers and the classroom - which is crowded and tired of wave after wave of changes. Dont let's revisit the eighties but learn from them.

The IT sector itself + the nature of the connected world + young people as digital natives = opportunties to deliver and develop 'programming' through more channels than just a poor teacher.

Wake up to what young people are already capable of, use the world they are in and competent with to stretch and widen their experience.

Please dont hack the curriculum back to a bygone age. Our needs are different and so are the kids.

Oh and please come see the results of creative problem solvers of the past at The National Museum of Computing based at Bletchley Park, where we have working examples of those 'past' machines, Beebs through to the ARM, alongside our beloved Colossus and much more besides.

By ChrisMonkTNMOC on 11 Feb 2011

Hang on a mo'

"A. Even from five, you can get kids programming little robots."

My daughter is being taught that right now, and is loving it.

By nichomach0 on 11 Feb 2011

Computers should be seen as creative

We need kids to understand that Computers let you bring your ideas to life.

Kids don't need to be taught how to program. They need to be made aware of that buzz that you get when you make something work.

There are loads of things you can use for this. Little Big Planet, Wario DIY, Kodu, Alice, Scratch, to name a few.

We need to focus on the message computing is inherently creative. A computer is both a means (it can help you be creative with words, pictures and videos) but is also an end (you can make things with a computer that nobody has ever made before). ICT at the moment has a huge focus on the means bit (which is fair enough) but we also need some emphasis on making machines do new stuff. That is where the big fun is.

By Rob_Miles on 11 Feb 2011

Systemic problem with the comprehensive system

@nik_endeavour

When I was 14 I was writing games for the C64 in assembly.

The problem in the uk is the fact that you're mixing the idiots with the bright kids.

In The Netherlands we split the kids into three different schools based on ability. Like the grammar school, but much more focussed.

I've had to put an enormous amount of effort into catching up with my dutch colleagues, as the British education system let me down.

By radicalbyte on 11 Feb 2011