Windows 8 could mimic Apple features

"high quality, uncomplicated, ‘It just works"
Or, looking another way
Expensive, unconfigurable, if it doesn't work, don't try to fix it yourself.

"This is something people will pay for!"
Only around 10% of the market - the other 90% don't want it

By greemble on 29 Jun 2010

It just works

I'm really not trying to start the usual Mac v PC nonsense here, but surely this is just another example of Apple's great (and I'm not being sarcastic) marketing?

In my experience, OSX doesn't 'just work' in fact some of the processes (like updating software) are postiively complex and require far more user interaction than the same software update on Windows.

I think it's perception. Usually on the PC you get a manufacturers disk that installs a whole load of unecessary gumf on the PC first before installing the hardware. This is what needs to be sorted out. The amount of rubbish an HP printer installs on a PC for example is bonkers.

By Grunthos on 29 Jun 2010

This isn't based on OSX though. They're talking about tablets which is IOS

By TimoGunt on 29 Jun 2010

Re: It just works

Out of curiosity, what software did you try difficult to update on OSX?

By luca_leonardi on 29 Jun 2010

It just works

But the 'it just works' perception is something they apply to all their products.

The software I in particulr I'm thinking of is Firefox. On the PC, when there is a new version it downloads and installs it when you next launch the brower and it's just done. On the Mac, you have to download a disk image, then mount the disk image, then run the disk, then drag (without any instructions) the icon into a folder. You can even end up with two identical Firefox icons on the dock yet one in the installer (but there is no way of knowing).

While I'm not a regular user of OSX. If 'it just works' then I shouldn't be presented with these steps.

I'm not trying to say Windows is easier than OSX, it's more this idea of 'it just works' that I disagree with.

By Grunthos on 29 Jun 2010

Dell

Dell gets a high profile mention..

By ckbridge1 on 29 Jun 2010

Oh please be quiet!

I love it - an article that is supposed to be a discussion about the direction Microsoft are taking ends up being an argument about Apple (again).

If you don't like the iPhone,iPad or any other Apple product, then don't buy them - simple!

But please, stop moaning about it like it's the end of the world - it isn't.

By smn1973 on 29 Jun 2010

OSX & Firefox

Grunthos,

The Firefox auto-update is a feature of Firefox itself. You can set it to run automatically (or not) in preferences.

I presume the Windows / Linux versions will be the same.

By CSprout on 29 Jun 2010

@smn1973
Most of the comments above seem relevant.
Surely people are entitled to give their opinion on here?

The "reset" button feature sounds a lot like Windows Restore, except I assume your programs would remain installed.

By nabster on 29 Jun 2010

Range of hardware

Surely an important point - whether you happen to prefer PCs or Macs - is that the Apple OS is designed to work only on their own hardware and they can test every combination of components, whereas Windows has to work with a vast range of equipment from many manufacturers.

By davidbryant4 on 29 Jun 2010

"use face recognition as a log-in tool"

So if someone holds a photo of me in front of my computer they'll be able to log in as me? No thanks.

By halsteadk on 29 Jun 2010

Range of hardware

Surely an important point - whether you happen to prefer PCs or Macs - is that the Apple OS is designed to work only on their own hardware and they can test every combination of components, whereas Windows has to work with a vast range of equipment from many manufacturers.

By davidbryant4 on 29 Jun 2010

@Grunthos - Firefox update works the same way in OS X as it does in Windows - you click check for updates in the menu, the update downloads, Firefox restarts and the update is installed.

I can only assume the Firefox you were using had permission issues, as that can interfere with Firefox's automatic updates on OS X.

By pbryanw on 29 Jun 2010

Look there is only one thing I really need, ALL OF MY DATA IN THE SAME PLACE!!!!

By stokegabriel on 29 Jun 2010

@stokegabriel

Preferably some place you know about & can get to it, too

By greemble on 30 Jun 2010

Just works?

The piece sets up the old Mac v Windows fight by suggesting the imitation, but it's a cheap shot since on the face of it all the Softies are doing is thinking of ways to make Windows better. Suggesting they are simply aping Apple won't stand up to any scrutiny, and I'd argue that the Win7 UI is significantly better than the current OSX, and sadly streets ahead of Linux. I speak as one who has been (successfully) trying to live without Microsoft Office, but when I tried to extend that to Ubuntu 10.4 I ran away screaming. I'd really like to make the switch but as long as you're forced into command line misery for something as simple as installing a Wacom tablet it's not ready for prime time (and I'm afraid the interface improvements are superficial - font handling among other things is still dreadful). But this was also a pertinent reminder that OSX certainly doesn't just work, and indeed like the iPad is fine as long as you only want to do simple things. Win7 isn't exempt from this: all OS products are the same in this respect - in truth if you know what you're doing you can usually do what you want, but if what you want isn't in the top level screens you're going to struggle. That's ok, it's the nature of the beast, but "just works" is marketing bullshit.

By tennyson09 on 30 Jun 2010

Windows doesn't need an Ap Store, it's already got market saturation for all of the applications, programmes and games anyone needs, all an ap store would do is enable Microsoft to skim a take off the top for the centralisation of the process.

But anyone who wants to can go to download.com and get all the aps they need already. Or go to individual developers' web sites.

Can you imagine the size of a Windows ap store? It would be in the millions, good luck finding the stars from the dross in that haystack.

By Phoomeister on 30 Jun 2010

When will Microsoft cut the umbilical cord to its earlier iterations of Windows? I believe Apple did it in OSX?

Having to seamlessly support so many legacy programmes and peripherals has been a real drag on Windows. Can they do it this time?

By Phoomeister on 30 Jun 2010

@Grunthos

For the record, the process you described is what you need to do for a new version of Firefox - eg. from 3.5 to 3.6. This is the same as installing a new application, and can be useful if you need two versions of the application (as a web developer, I do).

Plain update of the same version (eg. 3.6.2 to 3.6.3) is performed by Firefox itself and only requires restarting Firefox.

By luca_leonardi on 30 Jun 2010

Why more Windows?

Is it just me?

Why do we need another version of Windows anymore?

I'm just getting my last few clients off Win2000 - so we're ok for another 10 years.

By then Ubuntu (etc) will be ready - that just works - and people DON'T need to pay for that

;o)

Seriously, I can't see anyone using Win8 any differently than Win7 which is being used like WinXP, so why bother?

But, people must have "new" - which is the real reason why people will pay for it.

By Sercul on 1 Jul 2010

@Gunthos

OS X is highly customizable. Login as an admin, fire up terminal and bash away. Every App has its own plist file which you can edit to your hearts content.

I run firefox 4.0b2 - it updates automatically.

Is it really expensive? I looked at laptops the same as the new macbook pro - like for like the prices were very similar.

I think what Microsoft is saying to themselves is we are losing market share to Apple because once people get over the ineria for things not being exactly the same as Windows or simple technophobia that prevents change there is alot going for OS X for the basic or advanced user.

To success that OS X is like some Fisher Price version of Windows is a nice delusion - and definately not representative of the OS.

I suggest you spend more than a cursory look. My 75yo step father took to OS X in 2 weeks and loves it after years of failed Windows use.

'just works' is subjective and relative. switching on a new mac vs. a new PC your average user will have an easier time with OS X.

By JonnySpedding on 1 Jul 2010

@halsteadk

My Dell already uses facial recognition software. No, a picture is NOT suffiucient - the software looks in "3D", kinda. It doesn't recognise your face as such, but reference points - lots of them... They don't match on a picture, because a picture is flat.

By skooptech on 1 Jul 2010

I just works already

Win 7 works fine if all you want is web browsing and simple stuff.

Most things that don't work are stuff that is not written by Microsoft like Printer software and the pointless rubbish that PC manufactures feel the need to infect their PCs with and all the trial software you get.

Some improvements to installs would be good so that when you uninstall it all goes away and what about deleting all temp files when you log off, ever looked in your temp directory? after a bout a year there's probably a gig or so of rubbish in there why?
Too much bad programming by third parties is the problem.

By Lorribot on 1 Jul 2010

some Apple features I'd rather not have

OK, so it's going to have some Apple features - let's see now... the PC grinds to a halt if you hold it in a certain place,you can only get software from authorised sources...

By richardpenney1 on 1 Jul 2010

some Apple features I'd rather not have

OK, so it's going to have some Apple features - let's see now... the PC grinds to a halt if you hold it in a certain place,you can only get software from authorised sources...

By richardpenney1 on 1 Jul 2010

you are pathetic PCPro!

What on earth does this have to do with Apple?! Microsoft introduce some ideas for improvements, and instead of discussing these in depth (like other sites) you have to mention the fruit company, even though absolutely none of these features have absolutely anything do do with them - pathetic attempt to grab page hits.

By broccauley on 3 Jul 2010

"It just works"

I'm surprised by this. windows 7 has surely caught up and overtaken OSX, don't we agree? Isn't Microsoft underselling its achievement here?

By gavmeister on 4 Jul 2010

"it just works"

Well I am sorry but it does, I switched over to mac just over 2 years ago, I now own an macbook pro and have had the same machine for over 2 years, in those 2 years I have done nothing to it and it is still as fast as the day I bought it, a windows machine would have ground to a halt by now. So yes "it just works". The other 90% of people have probably never tried a Mac.

By tfemark on 5 Jul 2010

Deluded Apple Sheep

"If you don't like the iPhone,iPad or any other Apple product, then don't buy them - simple!

But please, stop moaning about it like it's the end of the world - it isn't."

It is the end of the world the sheep need to know the danger of what apple represents. Put simply expensive restriction of your own data, the means to create it and the hardware on which it is created. Sooner or later apple will release something like iweb or icloud, and idiots like you will be queuing up to rent applications and space to upload your data via your shiny itoy and imprison it at Steve Jobs' pleasure. Then, if you don't keep up your payments, bye bye pretentious "extreme" sports and baby photos.

By dodge1963 on 6 Jul 2010

@JonnySpedding

quote "My 75yo step father took to OS X in 2 weeks and loves it after years of failed Windows use."

Maybe he didn't like the colours of the icons?

Such a flippant remark sounds like either :

i) somebody wasn't helping him, in fact the opposite

ii) you love Apple PC's to the exclusion of alternatives (and now so does your step-dad).

Since both OS's are really quite functionally similar on the face of it, I find it impossible to believe the total polarisation of the abilities of your step-father. Sorry.

By Wilbert3 on 6 Jul 2010

My gripe with Windows....

...is that they create new 'Driver Models' every time, and throw out the old model, instead of running it as an option, or a translation layer (or even a Virtual Driver). Which is partly why lots of old drivers don't work in newer Windows. Surely they could create a way of using drivers in layers, thereby letting newer peripherals work fine, and old ones too.
I'm certainly not going to go out and buy a new printer, scanner, webcam, soundcard, etc. just to use Win7.
Oh, and having tried it, I like it - it's snappier than XP. Just not liking the new driver models with each version of Windows.
So I'm sticking with XP until both the printers and the scanner die!

By Wilbert3 on 6 Jul 2010

My gripe with Windows....

...is that they create new 'Driver Models' every time, and throw out the old model, instead of running it as an option, or a translation layer (or even a Virtual Driver). Which is partly why lots of old drivers don't work in newer Windows. Surely they could create a way of using drivers in layers, thereby letting newer peripherals work fine, and old ones too.
I'm certainly not going to go out and buy a new printer, scanner, webcam, soundcard, etc. just to use Win7.
Oh, and having tried it, I like it - it's snappier than XP. Just not liking the new driver models with each version of Windows.
So I'm sticking with XP until both the printers and the scanner die!

By Wilbert3 on 7 Jul 2010