Apple sends inspectors into Chinese factories

Not wanting to detract...

from the conditions in the factories, but the "spate of suicides" was very small, for the size of the facility.

Given that they have a population larger than many medium sized British towns, they actually have a much lower suicide rate than said towns.

Even for China, the rate is low, the Foxconn facility "should have had" between 42 and 56 suicides last year, if it was an "average" Chinese area. In 2010, they had around half that number.

One death is too many, but the figures for Shenzhen are actually well below average.

I'm all for the checks and better working conditions for employees, but I do also dislike the press blowing things out of proportion.

By big_D on 13 Feb 2012

Back to pre-Jobian days?

Good news for all the thousands involved in producing their wares. However, with funding partly provided by Apple, as the article mentions, let's hope that the FLA can maintain its independence.

By TheHonestTruth on 13 Feb 2012

"Independently assess" - Tim Cook

Independent in the unlimited broadband sense of the word, since the companies for whom they assess want value for money and bad publicity doesn't fall into that category.
I'm sure the inspection parameters are nicely lax too.

By dubiou on 13 Feb 2012

@big_D

Yes, that argument seems to pop up a lot, but I'll bet that the "average" is pretty skewed from things like working conditions in rare earth mines or subsistence farming. And I wonder if Tibetan self-immolation is included in the figures?

Let's compare its suicide rates with the rates from similar plants in similar industries – for now other tech fab plants in China, but one day perhaps even Intel's Rio Rancho or Samsung's new Austin plant?

By TheHonestTruth on 13 Feb 2012

Disgruntled Apple customer

Disgruntled Apple customer here.

Maybe slightly off topic, but I feel we need to move away from putting our eggs in the 'Made in China' basket. Then maybe we won't have as much of these suicides/accidental deaths. I seem to recall my old Dual DP G4, the first Mac I brought back in 2002 being 'Made in Hungary'. Apple hardware is amongst the most expensive on the market, so it's not as if we are going to feel the increase.

Is the pursuit of profit at all costs the right way to go? Lest I forgot, when you have accountants running the show. We know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

On topic, of course they are going to be lax. HAppens with every inspection.

By chunkymacain on 13 Feb 2012

Smoke & Mirrors AKA The Reality Distortion Field

Its nice to know that despite losing Jobs, Apple is still able to crank up that good old Reality Distortion Field (and this isn't the first time!).

Let's be perfectly clear here. Apple (and all the others, but we're not talking about THEM).

Apple manufactures its shiny topys in China PRECISELY BECAUSE labour is cheap and there is little or no meaningful regulation of their activities. Full Stop.


Labour is cheap and regulation limited because the Party and the Chinese Military, or rather the leadership of those organisations and their families, owns and\or controls most of the country's businesses.


China is not a democracy, China is not a meritocracy.
China is becoming a quasi-feudal hereditary autocracy run by people convinced that their destiny is to rule.

Consequently, as long as it meets the leadership's main goals of maintaining control and self-enrichment, companies in China have carte-blanche to do as they will.


I know this, Apple knows this.

Consequently these 'inspections' are as meaningless as all the talk of 'trickle-down' economics. That myth should have died with Regan.

By wittgenfrog on 15 Feb 2012

Smoke & Mirrors AKA The Reality Distortion Field

Its nice to know that despite losing Jobs, Apple is still able to crank up that good old Reality Distortion Field (and this isn't the first time!).

Let's be perfectly clear here. Apple (and all the others, but we're not talking about THEM).

Apple manufactures its shiny topys in China PRECISELY BECAUSE labour is cheap and there is little or no meaningful regulation of their activities. Full Stop.


Labour is cheap and regulation limited because the Party and the Chinese Military, or rather the leadership of those organisations and their families, owns and\or controls most of the country's businesses.


China is not a democracy, China is not a meritocracy.
China is becoming a quasi-feudal hereditary autocracy run by people convinced that their destiny is to rule.

Consequently, as long as it meets the leadership's main goals of maintaining control and self-enrichment, companies in China have carte-blanche to do as they will.


I know this, Apple knows this.

Consequently these 'inspections' are as meaningless as all the talk of 'trickle-down' economics. That myth should have died with Regan.

By wittgenfrog on 15 Feb 2012

This whole debate is a wrong. How much is the "proper" wage? Is it what is paid in the UK? US (would that be Seattle or South Carolina)? France? Bangladesh? How about communist Soviet Union? Of course this is ridiculous.

Isn’t the “proper” wage that agreed by a wiling employer and willing worker? After all you can always not take the job or quit. And what is worse than a bad job is no job. Shouldn’t the local government determine any regulations that set minimum standards for its own? How can you realistically expect standards for another location (the US) to be applicable? It is desirable, possible or logical to have a US-standard wage and conditions in a developing country? So silly.

So isn’t this discussion really about protectionism or creating jobs in the NGO sector? Follow the dollars. Apple is a juicy target. Now, for PR/political purposes, they have to pay FLA to do a job Apple is already doing itself: ensuring that its suppliers do the job they are hired to do at the best price, according to applicable laws. Those criticizing FLA are simply protectionists that would have you subsidize their higher paying jobs or supporters of other NGOs that want the business.

As long as Apple follows applicable laws, I want them getting the best deal they can. It keeps my costs down, protects the balance of payments in the UK….and creates technologies, products and markets that would never have existed.

By the way, most of those workers we are talking about being in need of protection were working the fields with no wage, no physical protections, no limit on hours only 10 years ago (I live just over the border). The dramatic improvement in their life’s over that period is breath taking. No multilateral effort could ever match that kind of development in scale or scope, or effectiveness. It sounds like the best thing you could do for these people is to buy more iPhones.
And, as for suicide rates, checking the rates on Wikipedia shows that Foxcomm rates are not high at all. It is just that the company so huge. On a per 100,000 population basis….they are completely normal.

By Scottbike10 on 17 Feb 2012

@Scottbike10

"Isn’t the “proper” wage that agreed by a wiling employer and willing worker? "

The word "Willing" is pretty important in your sentence. It implies that there is a realistic choice for the workers, not simply that between accepting the job\conditions\wages or living in even worse poverty.


"After all you can always not take the job or quit. And what is worse than a bad job is no job."

You and I might have that luxury we live in a relatively stable democratic country under the ruile of Law. None of that really applies in China, which employs the "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!!".

"Shouldn’t the local government determine any regulations that set minimum standards for its own? How can you realistically expect standards for another location (the US) to be applicable? It is desirable, possible or logical to have a US-standard wage and conditions in a developing country? So silly...."

You aren't making a very good case for 'globalisation'.
It's all very well for the Chinese Government to set whatever wages & conditions it desires. Whilst I might deplore them they need have no effect on other, more democratic states.

Unfortunately China uses its autocratic system to compete with other democratic developing countries, as well as with existing Industrialised countries.
The nett effect is that China has an unfair advantage in trade that has completely de-stabilsed the World economy. (OK I agree they had a LOT of help from the likes of Apple there).
It is having increasingly undemocratic politcal effects in other countries too where entire nations are forced to undergo upheaval in the name of 'debt-reduction'.

By wittgenfrog on 17 Feb 2012

@Scottbike10

"Isn’t the “proper” wage that agreed by a wiling employer and willing worker? "

The word "Willing" is pretty important in your sentence. It implies that there is a realistic choice for the workers, not simply that between accepting the job\conditions\wages or living in even worse poverty.


"After all you can always not take the job or quit. And what is worse than a bad job is no job."

You and I might have that luxury we live in a relatively stable democratic country under the ruile of Law. None of that really applies in China, which employs the "dictatorship of the proletariat" or "DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!!".

"Shouldn’t the local government determine any regulations that set minimum standards for its own? How can you realistically expect standards for another location (the US) to be applicable? It is desirable, possible or logical to have a US-standard wage and conditions in a developing country? So silly...."

You aren't making a very good case for 'globalisation'.
It's all very well for the Chinese Government to set whatever wages & conditions it desires. Whilst I might deplore them they need have no effect on other, more democratic states.

Unfortunately China uses its autocratic system to compete with other democratic developing countries, as well as with existing Industrialised countries.
The nett effect is that China has an unfair advantage in trade that has completely de-stabilsed the World economy. (OK I agree they had a LOT of help from the likes of Apple there).
It is having increasingly undemocratic politcal effects in other countries too where entire nations are forced to undergo upheaval in the name of 'debt-reduction'.

By wittgenfrog on 17 Feb 2012