Windows 8 "an irrelevance" for PC users

Metro...

The Metro home screen is fine, I like it.

What I don't like, as a desktop user is "full screen apps". I have 2 24" monitors here, with half a dozen windows in stripes across the two screens.

What MS has said, until now, is "full screen, with the option of 2/3 1/3 for splitting two apps." That is fine on a tablet, but on a decent notebook (1920x1080) or large monitor desktop system, that won't work.

Writing an E-Mail full screen on a 27" 2560X1440 window is just silly.

More importantly, when I am composing e-mails, documents or spreadhseets, I generally have 2 or 3 reference windows open with essential information on them. I can read those windows, whilst typing in the new document. Try doing that with only one window visible!

This is where Microsoft needs to go on the offensive and explain just how Windows 8 will work for existing desktop users.

Some apps work well full screen (video & image editing, project planning, for example), but most applications don't benefit from full screen mode (web browsing, word processing etc.), at least on larger / higher resolution displays.

Until now, Microsoft (and the press) have just gone, ooh look shiny shiny tablet and left the vast majority of their customers wondering what the heck they will be facing, when Windows 8 comes along.

The dev preview hasn't helped me much, I have tried it in a virtual machine, but that was restricted to 800x600, as I don't currently have a spare machine for testing...

I am hoping the desktop experience isn't going to be as bad as it looks, based on the tablet reviews and demonstrations. But MS and the press seem to have tablets firmly wedged where the sun doesn't shine and don't seem to be able to look beyond this arena, to where the majority of users are using Windows.

By big_D on 7 Dec 2011

Is Win8 ...

... the new Vista?

By qpw3141 on 7 Dec 2011

The Henry Ford Principle

Jensen Harris, gave an indication of the company's attitude to the traditional PC desktop, stating that "every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead.”

What unutterable tosh ! Large numbers of business users are unwilling to move from XP so one can assume just what their attitude will be to W8.

The PC is my workaday tool and the very last thing I need is top spend my time pressing virtual buttons. The whole concept of upgrade can only really be justified if there is real enhancement and improvement and not just a strategy to sell the unnecessary.

MS is rather like Ford once was - you can have any colour you want so long as it is black. It annoys me greatly that I cannot
buy a new desktop or laptop without being able to request my preferred operating system. XP works for me - why should I be forced to change.

By herttach on 7 Dec 2011

@qpw31411...

...starting to sound like that isn't it?

By jontym123 on 7 Dec 2011

"...will be largely irrelevant" to PC users.

In reference to current users that's probably right, and there's little chance people will upgrade. However, W8 will surely be very relevant to future PC owners as touchscreens become more and more standard across a range of products, not just what we currently think of as tablets.

By dwlhot on 7 Dec 2011

@jontym123

It is.

The only reason I can see for desktop/laptop/notebook users to move from WIN7 is if MS get around the WinSXS/Installer/Hiberfile problems that are going to become more and more of a problem as people move towards SSD's.

By qpw3141 on 7 Dec 2011

Windows 8 - the OS for tablets, TVs and public information kiosks

In my experience, touch monitors are a waste of time and excessively tiring on the arm. If a monitor is to be touch sensitive for every day use, it needs to be horizontal on a desk.

Surely Microsoft can see that for a mouse user, the Metro interface is entirely pointless...pun slightly intended.

By John_Greythorne on 7 Dec 2011

Fingerprints.

I hate fingerprints on my screen.

By revsorg on 7 Dec 2011

touch

Why would an office worker prefer to wave their whole arm around a large screen all day, rather than move a mouse a few inches?
Besides, a mouse pointer gives way more pixel accuracy than a fingertip.
This whole concept is just baffling.

By dg2puk on 7 Dec 2011

Wrong market?

What I don't get is why Microsoft are targeting touchscreens so heavily with Windows 8. With 99.9% of PC sales not having touch then they are catering to the wrong side of the market.

I like Metro, I have a touchscreen laptop I tested it on and it was still horrible.

By JStairmand on 7 Dec 2011

touch

Why would an office worker prefer to wave their whole arm around a large screen all day, rather than move a mouse a few inches?
Besides, a mouse pointer gives way more pixel accuracy than a fingertip.
This whole concept is just baffling.

By dg2puk on 7 Dec 2011

When they tried shoehorning Windows 7 on phones and tablets it was rubbish compared to iOS and Android. Desktops and tablets have very different needs and ways of being used.

So fair enough MS has created Windows 8 looks and works great for tablets and phones - but now it works poorly on desktops!

Talk about solve one problem and create a new one!


I guess the people at MS have got so hung up on being behind on tablets and phones they have focussed too narrowly on those needs and abandoned their main market - desktop/laptop computers!

I definitely won't be upgrading to Windows 8 from Windows 7 unless there's a dramatic change in the interface for desktops.

By cyberindie on 7 Dec 2011

Don't like it at all

Yep this might be great on a tablet, but as a day to day thing... no, just no. why am i gonna sit prodding a monitor like some giant phone, fingerprints all over it... yuck! i can see the point as a home screen, to give you relevant information fast, meetings, appts etc. but not as the default interface between me and my applications. i really really hope MS sort out a method where the desktop is able to be set as the default method of launching and interacting with the PC. or this is gonna be one truly epic fail! BOB anyone?

By Cerberus73 on 7 Dec 2011

I think it's a good compromise

I got the opportunity to use a Windows 8 tablet a couple of months ago (I think it was the one they gave to developers). I really liked the idea - you carried the tablet around but then when you sat down at a desk, you put it in to a (small) dock which connected to a wireless keyboard and mouse.

For existing desktop PCs, WIndows 8 might be a challenge, but going forward I think Win8 will redefine how what a desktop PC is - the concept of the mini/midi may disappear for the majority of people

By Chatan on 7 Dec 2011

I'm sorry...

...To burst the bubble here but I'll get straight to the point:

Windows 8 will sell bucket loads.

Metro is on the phone and shortly on the XBOX 360 so every single kid across the globe will know what metro is and the fact that it's 'Cool'. After that the parents will fall in line and as for business...

Business. The funny thing with business is that after being an administrator for all these years you kind of pickup on trends. Whenever a pc hits the desk the taskbar shortcuts for Office are down on that bar and all other files that they work on through the day sit on the desktop as shortcuts. Now, these are the standard users, while the technical bodies keep on screaming and screaming 'waaah'. Stop. It'll be ok. MS will do well this time.

As it stands Windows 8 will hit the desktops in this company. Stage 1 will see me removing the existing 'tiles' to be replaced by Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Publisher. Stage 2 will see me adding their individual desktop shortcut icons as tiles on the metro interface. Will the user really care?


..... NO ....

They will still work EXACTLY as they've worked before and the live update tiles will make things that little bit easier.

By rhythm on 7 Dec 2011

P.s. For the double screen guys

Like me...

Click the Desktop Tile, click your shortcut to application A (Appears on screen 1), then click your shortcut to Application B (Appears on screen 2).

Done. 1 extra click.

1

By rhythm on 7 Dec 2011

Economics

Given the current economic climate consumers, quite rightly, are cutting back on discretionary spending. Replacing a perfectly good screen with a touch capable one (is that going to before or after the 3D capable one?) comes under the heading 'discretionary'.
Actually, tablets ...net books without a keyboard, could also be discribed as such. There lies win8's biggest brake in the desktop market.

By fingerbob69 on 7 Dec 2011

@fingerbob69

I like your thinking, but given the number of new cars and shiny mobile phones I've seen in the last month, I don't think your theory stands out.

However, if people did follow your theory, maybe people wouldn't be in as much debt!

But I digress. Sorry!

By Chatan on 7 Dec 2011

@Chatan

"I'm sorry...
...To burst the bubble here"

LOL, the rest of your post sounds exactly like the kind of wishful thinking that MS indulged in when they tried to foist vista on an unwilling market. And look how far that got them.

And vista actually had quite a few improvements over XP for the general user.

If there are any bubbles that need bursting it's those of MS and the few W8 fans that ignore history and believe that W8 will sell when it has no stand out feature for the general user, is a PITA on a normal PC and many people are STILL happily using XP.

By qpw3141 on 7 Dec 2011

@rythm

And where do the other half dozen windows appear?

I am glad the desktop tile is still there, for older Windows applications. But as things move to Metro, it will reduce productivity for many users.

As to touch everywhere, my screens are at just the right distance for viewing, but they are a good 15 - 20cm further away than I can reach with my fingertips.

For touch to work, as has been said, the display needs to be sunk down onto the physical desktop and brought closer, but you will still need to be able to use a keyboard for typing (I can't touch type on a screen, when I am reading content from notes taken in a meeting, I can do that with a physical keyboard).

Secondly, they need to find a surface which doesn't smear when it is touched! I can easily wipe my smartphone against my shirt breast to clean it, so I can read what is on the screen, that is more difficult with a tablet, but I don't want to spend my entire day cleaning 24" monitors!

By big_D on 7 Dec 2011

I very much doubt you'll be forced to use the Metro interface

Guys - please remember this is the Developer Preview - not even the Beta! They WANT people to try out the new stuff. If they had the Preview working the other way round - with the traditional desktop as the norm and the Metro interface as an optional application / shortcut we'd probably look at it once and that's that. They WANT us to HAVE to play with it, try to get it a little under our skin. They want us to find out what does and doesn't work with that interface and suggest ways of improving it. They know the traditional desktop works pretty well, so no point in pushing that at us.

In the Beta version (or certainly production version), be surprised if there is not some easy switch in Settings to either default to the Standard desktop completely, or at least allow some semblance of a traditional Start menu interaction.

At the moment there is NO point in fussing over this at all! Though, I'm pretty sure the overall message to Microsoft is pretty clear :-)

As to whether Windows 7 users will want to upgrade. The standard home user wont - they're scared of upgrades. Enthusiasts will. Windows 8 boots wayyyYYYY smarter and faster than Windows 7 (I've stuck it on a bog-standard 6 year old laptop at work and it boots in 40 seconds to the desktop!).

Those businesses which are still managing XP clients and are looking to move forward may as well wait for Windows 8 to stabalise. Users always complain of slow boot times and Windows 8 would appear to properly kick ass on that score - an easy win for IT departments. Legacy apps / in-house apps will need to work on Windwos 8, but things look good so far.

In a couple years time we might all have tablets for work. We dock them at work - and it gives us a traditional desktop. We head for home and the interface is Metro. One device coping nicely with both worlds, and no need to sync files!

This is no Vista - quite the opposite!

By chrislegrice on 7 Dec 2011

@herttach

"MS is rather like Ford once was - you can have any colour you want so long as it is black. It annoys me greatly that I cannot
buy a new desktop or laptop without being able to request my preferred operating system. XP works for me - why should I be forced to change."

Tried buying a new model T recently?

By chapelgarth on 7 Dec 2011

@chrislegrice

I hope you're right. The developer preview does my nut in every time I click on the Start menu and wizz back to metro. If it doesn't change then the money will stay safely in my wallet.

By SirRoderickSpode on 7 Dec 2011

Tried buying a new model T recently?

LAWL! Best response on the forum all day. Nail hit squarely on the head.

By PaleRider on 7 Dec 2011

@chrislegrice

There is good reason to create a fuss - if we don't and all kept quiet about the things that annoy us in the new OS Microsoft won't change anything.

Hopefully this fuss will at least make them think before the beta stage.

By cyberindie on 7 Dec 2011

Never liked touchscreen, but until now I was happy just to ignore it... I think a good question to ask the developers is "what on earth are you thinking?"

Who buys touch screen PCs? Seriously, it is an ergonomic disaster.

By mikes87 on 7 Dec 2011

I fully intend to upgrade, the beta version of 8 so far has me hooked. It did take a little getting used to but I find the older 7 environment awkward to use in comparison now.

By skarlock on 7 Dec 2011

Screwed if they do, screwed if they don't...

What a lot of fuss about NOTHING!
I'm with Rhythm - this is a 'Developer Preview'.

Its role is to get DEVELOPERS to think about how to use (and abuse!) the Metro Interface running on PCs and most importantly Tablets.
The underlying OS is still good old Windows. MS didn't dish out hundreds of fasinds of quids worth of shiny new Wintel Tablets just so the recipients would revert to generic 'Windows'.

MS doesn't really need any more traditional WIMP applications for Windows, but it DOES need to generate a bit of momentum for 'Metro' applications (or 'Apps' as Apple won't let us say).

So yes,the Developer Prieview is a PITA to use on anything without 'Touch', but use it you can (I do sometimes). Everything is still there, and some of its been spruced-up a bit.

MS have taken a gamble by radically overhauling the UI of Windows for PCs, and then integrating it with a similar 'Look & Feel' across their 'phones and XBOX. However its not only Metro that's on offer. There are significant changes & improvements to lots of 'under the hood'.
This is stuff that will pay off no matter how you use Windows 8.

Anyone who thinks that MS will release W8 in a form that is hard to use on a 'bog standard' PC is an idiot.
The various incarnations of 'Windows' have maintained an amazing level of backwards compatibility, the ability to run on diverse hardware, and can all be heavily customised to suit the individual, or the Corportae ethos. I see no reason for that to change.

Where W8 will score is that it can do all this, and also compete with iOS on Tablets.
Of the two W8's Metro is vastly fresher, brighter and esasier to use than iOS's ancient clunky icon-based metaphor.

By wittgenfrog on 7 Dec 2011

Tried buying a new model T recently?

Sorry but you really do not get it. If I want to buy a car I have a very wide range to choose from. Most - if not all - just like the Model T have wheels and an engine. If want to buy a Desktop or Laptop with windows the choice is zero - MS ditates what the OS will be.

By herttach on 7 Dec 2011

@herttach

"If want to buy a Desktop or Laptop with windows the choice is zero - MS ditates what the OS will be."

That rather like saying if you want to buy a Mondeo, Ford dictates that it will be a Mondeo.

Yes, if you want to buy a Windows PC then it will - LDO - have to run Windows.

But it can be any of a number of versions of XP (which you can still obtain), Vista, or Win7.

By qpw3141 on 7 Dec 2011

Tried buying a new model T recently?

Sorry but you really do not get it. If I want to buy a car I have a very wide range to choose from. Most - if not all - just like the Model T have wheels and an engine. If want to buy a Desktop or Laptop with windows the choice is zero - MS ditates what the OS will be.

By herttach on 7 Dec 2011

@herrtach

You're right! I really DON'T get it!

If you want to buy a 'Windows' PC you are ipso-facto and apriori going to get a PC with 'Windows'(tm) on it.

If you don't like Windows, then buy a laptop sans OS an install any one of half a dozen versions of LINUX, or buy a ChromeBook, or, if you're feeling flash\flush shell-out for a Mac.

Its not a great choice, but it is a choice. But I'm sure Ive missed the point, again.

By wittgenfrog on 7 Dec 2011

Am I missing something?

Why can't I just "touch" with my mouse cursor? Problem solved.

OK I can't pinch and all that but there must be a simple way around it.

I hate to sound all management speak but let's look for solutions, not problems.

By JohnHo1 on 7 Dec 2011

I can't reach my screen! What do I do?

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a simple errgonomic issue in that those at desktops often can't reach their screens for interactivity with it so it will raise all sorts of issues around Health and Safety and repetitive strain injuries. I can't reach teh screen on my work desk or my home desk - how do I then interact with Windows 8?

I have run the Developer Preview too and it is exactly that a preview for developers. Even with this a simple registry edit boots straight to the desktop removing the Metro interface....

By tonybro on 7 Dec 2011

Typos!

Judging by the typos in the above I can't even reach my keyboard properly! :-) What hope do I have?

By tonybro on 7 Dec 2011

@herttach

I'm afraid you're the one that does not get it! If you want to buy a car, be it a Ford, Fiat or whatever, you only have a choice of what they are currently making. Not what they were making 10 or 20 years ago or between 1908 and 1927 in the case of a model T Ford.

You say you want a new desktop with Windows, then you get the currently made and sold version of Windows. If you really must have XP, then as with a model T, you're going to have to look to the second hand market.

By chapelgarth on 7 Dec 2011

@JohnHo1

Yes, you can use a mouse and keyboard. Just as you do now.

By chapelgarth on 7 Dec 2011

Kinect

I can see the metro interface working well with Kinect. My guess is that moving forward we will see more Kinect-style devices in the office. However since most work involves at least some element of typing I expect that by release time it will be very easy to switch to the standard non-metro interface and it might even be an install default

By Pozzy on 7 Dec 2011

Onward & upward...

@Pozzy - I'd bet that KINECT (or at least the technology it uses) will be a big part of MS's future thinking in the Office and elsewhere.

By wittgenfrog on 7 Dec 2011

Metro is App store only?

I've just read you won't be able to buy metro apps from anywhere but the MS store, which presumable means you can't develop your own too?

Just as well I really like windows 7 so I'm in no rush to upgrade.

By ChrisH on 7 Dec 2011

Can't Touch This

Microsoft have just got to get over this obsession: people are not repeat not going to use touch-enabled full-size monitors at work. The incidence of RSI would sky-rocket, and both H&S and the legal department simply wouldn't wear it. Just try holding your arms out straight in front of you for ten minutes, let alone all day. Laughable.

By Avatar on 7 Dec 2011

You will all be using touch screen within 10 years

Guys, get over it. We will all be using touch screen in the near future. Keyboard and mouse are dead.

By DaChimp on 8 Dec 2011

I use touch screen at work...

and as a result have learnt all the numeric shortcuts! The monitor is about a metre in front of me and the keyboard is 10 cms!

In addition as stated there is the constant issue with fingerprints (which as someone who uses his home monitor as an entertainment centre, I hate seeing), not to mention, occasional reboots when the monitor locks up!

By scooter91170 on 8 Dec 2011

History in ever repeating circles

Windows 3.1 - Wow - Upgrade
Windows 95 - new features / design failure
Windows 98 - Wow - Upgrade
Windows ME - new features / design failure
Windows XP - Wow - Upgrade
Windows Vista - new features / design failure
Windows 7 - Wow - Upgrade
Windows 8 - ???

Repetitive pattern isn't it

By rupert2001 on 8 Dec 2011

Windows 8

I agree, I don't like the Metro style.

But it did find and install my Xerox printer in seconds without me having to find the software for it.

I don't think I will buy it. I run XP, Vista and Ubuntu. Ubuntu I use the most.

KJR

By snuggle on 8 Dec 2011

Dinosaurs

All of you - well nearly all of you. Can you honestly imagine doing this in 20 years time - sitting at a desk tapping on a qwerty keyboard, scraping a mouse around your desk!! Don't you realise that the idea of a computer is to do the work for YOU! Instead we have to pander to how it wants us to work! Sit n' beg at a desk, working some program or other that quite often is less efficient and more error prone than the same task used to be before we even had PCs.
All hail the PC and curse the heretics. Perhaps the "PCPRO" forum is not the right platform for this!?

By peterj6 on 8 Dec 2011

One METRO to rule them all?

Not really. The Xbox Dashboard does have a Metro interface but it's completely different from that of a WP7. It is quite nicely tailored to the Xbox platform. Which makes sense. On the other hand the Metro UI in W8 preview looks like 100% tablet interface, which is also very much like the phone one. The Xbox team managed to do quite a good job customising the UI, why the Windows team can't be bothered remains a mystery. But until the boxes are on shelves, there's still hope...

By Josefov on 8 Dec 2011

Dev Version

The Win 8 preview is a Metro developer preview, for developers to explicitly try out Metro development, hence it's just setup for Metro.

Corporates (and therefore end users) will be able to disable the Metro interface and use the standard Win 7 type interface, so what exactly is the problem and all the whinging about?

By justinb486 on 8 Dec 2011

MS in Linux bashing again?

This is clearly MS's attempt to get Gnome and Ubuntu to think that they're right to go with tablet-style full screen programs on giant desktop screens and silly menu systems for Gnome3 and Unity.

When Win8 is released, it will obviously won't have such silliness and will clean up.

After all, when have MS ever messed up an OS? Erm...

By iwatters on 8 Dec 2011

@rupert2001

LOL. That only looks like a pattern because you've used a very suspect definition of wow/failure.

Windows 95 was extremely well received.

Windows 98 and ME were both damp squids.

Windows XP was probably the most significant Windows ever because it finally brought to the 'consumer' version all the features that previously only those using NT4 enjoyed.

Vista was a debacle because MS tried to force new idea that were not sufficiently tested onto an unwilling audience, most of whom were perfectly happy with XP.

By qpw3141 on 8 Dec 2011

@peterj6

"Can you honestly imagine doing this in 20 years time - sitting at a desk tapping on a qwerty keyboard, scraping a mouse around your desk!!"

Funny, that's *exactly* what people said in 1990. ;)

By qpw3141 on 8 Dec 2011

RSI Here I Come

I have actually used a large touche screen. Smeary finger prints are anoying when editing images, but the real killer is RSI. Just try reaching out and touching your screen several times a minuite for half an hour and you too will find the experience painful.

By dmounter on 8 Dec 2011

Monopoly Marketing

They are going to try their best to make Metro the default interface because it is the trojan horse for Microsoft to take back more of the revenue from the application market. A Metro App will pay to be seen in the Microsoft store. This is the entire reason for the strategy. As they have a practical monopoly on windows hardware they can try to foist any change they like on us - remember the poxy ribbon bar? another piece of marketing merde. I have two 27" 1920x1200 (not crappy 1080 televisions note) monitors on my work desk with two to four open applications. Windows 8 is for teenagers with cell phones in its current incarnation. No complex business is ever going to buy it if it doesn't have at least the interface capabilities of windows 7. Windows 8 is a down market product for information consumption, it is not for content and information creation or manipulation. Microsoft will probably leave a traditional desktop hidden on it but it wont be easy to access. I dont know about you but I despise people who sell me things that they have made harder to use or less useful because of design choices dictated by their marketing strategy. I hope the ribbon bar becomes as hated as the paperclip some day - and for the same reasons, windows 8 is going the same way.

By coastwalker on 8 Dec 2011

GEC, Ratners, Kodak, Microsoft...

MS's attitude brings to mind other companies who treated their core customers with contempt and have paid the price.
But do I detect realism slowly creeping in? Metro is now to "be the default Windows Start Screen" so maybe a classic interface will be readily available after all?

By Walsallian on 8 Dec 2011

W8 Is Not Gunna Work

W8 is not a OS, but a toy like Vista and anything MS dumps out to make monye with.
People who use computers for work need a OS that is much like W2000, simple, clean and functional TO GET THE DAMN WORK DONE!
When I see companies sticking it to consumers by over pricing printer inks, touch screen OS's, new systems stuffed with uninstallable Buy Me Software, and other gimmicks to GET THE MONYE, I know that company is short lived and has hired greedy smucks who know nothing about the real world. If MS goes down, so does the planet.Besides that, whoes going to clean my screens every day?

By BillB on 8 Dec 2011

Dinosaurs

All of you - well nearly all of you. Can you honestly imagine doing this in 20 years time - sitting at a desk tapping on a qwerty keyboard, scraping a mouse around your desk!! Don't you realise that the idea of a computer is to do the work for YOU! Instead we have to pander to how it wants us to work! Sit n' beg at a desk, working some program or other that quite often is less efficient and more error prone than the same task used to be before we even had PCs.
All hail the PC and curse the heretics. Perhaps the "PCPRO" forum is not the right platform for this!?

By peterj6 on 8 Dec 2011

Dinosaurs

All of you - well nearly all of you. Can you honestly imagine doing this in 20 years time - sitting at a desk tapping on a qwerty keyboard, scraping a mouse around your desk!! Don't you realise that the idea of a computer is to do the work for YOU! Instead we have to pander to how it wants us to work! Sit n' beg at a desk, working some program or other that quite often is less efficient and more error prone than the same task used to be before we even had PCs.
All hail the PC and curse the heretics. Perhaps the "PCPRO" forum is not the right platform for this!?

By peterj6 on 8 Dec 2011

@peterj6

"Can you honestly imagine doing this in 20 years time - sitting at a desk tapping on a qwerty keyboard, scraping a mouse around your desk!!"

Funny, that's *exactly* what people said in 1990. ;)

By qpw3141 on 8 Dec 2011

@peterj6

In 20 years time I expect to Talk to the computer and not tap around a small screen which I am straining to see detail on.
Like other serious PC users I have 2 large screens on my machine to be able to read multiple windows at the same time.
W8 metro does not work for me.
It's probably OK if all you do is view movies and use Facebook.

By grahammills1945 on 8 Dec 2011

Re: Dinasaurs

peterj6, yes I do think the querty keyboard will quite possibly be with us for another 20 years. It is still an efficient input text device for the office desktop, especially for touch typists (incidentally will that term take on a whole new meaning with touchscreens?). The touchscreen paradigm works well on most (although not all) mobile devices, retail cashpoints, photocopiers and public kiosks, but I think it is a mistake to brute force it onto desktop computers in the office, whether they be Windows, Ubuntu or Apple Mac. It will be interetsting to see how the future unfolds on this one. We will no doubt continue to find new applications for Touchscreens and I do think the operating system should offer a touchscreen interface as an option that can be enabled where such applications exist, but I don't think we can kill off the QUERTY keyboard just yet.

By breeze on 8 Dec 2011

Tail wagging the dog

Touch screens, pads etc are great for using graphics/pictures/ NOT for a/numeric characters. Data entry via k/board & mouse on the PC is the system of choice for 99% of users?

By plangain on 8 Dec 2011

Re: Dinasaurs

peterj6, yes I do think the querty keyboard will quite possibly be with us for another 20 years. It is still an efficient input text device for the office desktop, especially for touch typists (incidentally will that term take on a whole new meaning with touchscreens?). The touchscreen paradigm works well on most (although not all) mobile devices, retail cashpoints, photocopiers and public kiosks, but I think it is a mistake to brute force it onto desktop computers in the office, whether they be Windows, Ubuntu or Apple Mac. It will be interetsting to see how the future unfolds on this one. We will no doubt continue to find new applications for Touchscreens and I do think the operating system should offer a touchscreen interface as an option that can be enabled where such applications exist, but I don't think we can kill off the QUERTY keyboard just yet.

By breeze on 8 Dec 2011

Buy an Apple ;-)

Three years ago I didn't want Vista with my new laptop, so I switched to a Macbook. I'm glad I did and I'm staying in the OS X camp. I don't want Microsoft to decide how I work, then change the game every 2 or 3 years.

By redfava on 8 Dec 2011

Microsoft are going to find out (again) that it is their customers who decide what is acceptable, and not their marketing department - or whoever else it was who came up with the crazed idea of putting a palm top operating system on a desk top.

By lesliedellow on 8 Dec 2011

Re: Dinasaurs

peterj6, yes I do think the querty keyboard will quite possibly be with us for another 20 years. It is still an efficient input text device for the office desktop, especially for touch typists (incidentally will that term take on a whole new meaning with touchscreens?). The touchscreen paradigm works well on most (although not all) mobile devices, retail cashpoints, photocopiers and public kiosks, but I think it is a mistake to brute force it onto desktop computers in the office, whether they be Windows, Ubuntu or Apple Mac. It will be interetsting to see how the future unfolds on this one. We will no doubt continue to find new applications for Touchscreens and I do think the operating system should offer a touchscreen interface as an option that can be enabled where such applications exist, but I don't think we can kill off the QUERTY keyboard just yet.

By breeze on 8 Dec 2011

@breeze

Do you really believe that? 20 more years of this? Don't you think we can do better - with all of this massive computing power? Of course we can. Perhaps touch screens are not the long term future - but please let's not be HERE in 20 years time.

Knowing MS however - I doubt they will stay true to their convictions for very long. Change is very necessary for them, so they'll keep that coming as often as "acceptable".

By peterj6 on 8 Dec 2011

touch or hold screen?

The thing about a hand held touch screen is that you have to hold it with one hand and poke it with the other!

I learned to use a keyboard. It's quicker than a mouse. I guess poking a screen lies in between the two for speed.

The 'User Interface Experience' has become the wait for the operating system to throw up what you clicked on. Gimmicky fading menus and so on are a complete waste of time. What's the difference between scrolling/paging down and dragging a page around.

Took me 10min to work out how to log on when I tested the W8 server version. You have to drag the screen up. No prompts or hints what to do, and dragging a screen up on a server?!? Hardly intuitive. I was so annoyed that I almost wiped the disk before I even tested it.
When I did I thought it was ok, but other than potential security enhancements I didn't see anything that would encourage me to move from 2008R2 to W8Server.

By skgiven on 8 Dec 2011

Metro will be mandatory

For those of you saying that this is just a preview and it'll be alright on the night - don't kid yourselves - read what they're saying. (And pray they read what you're saying). So far as I know, it was a Windows 8 preview and NOT a Metro preview.

"Microsoft's director of Windows Experience ... [stated] that 'every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead.' " Sounds pretty dogmatic to me. Personally, I feel that a desktop monitor without touch feels like a fish without a bicycle.

And, as is stated above, simple substitution of a touch screen on a desktop PC will probably be declared "illegal" according to Health and Safety Rules. (Oh, that's good - EU intervenes to declare Windows 8 illegal on ergonomic grounds?)

By AdrianB on 8 Dec 2011

It certainly is an irrelevance for my PC...

... I've been running openSUSE Linux with the KDE desktop for years, and I get all my everyday computing done without any issues.

By iclbmc1 on 8 Dec 2011

Businesses need functionality not gimmicks

I'm largely with @herttach on this one. Business users want to be able to perform certain tasks; the PC is a means to an end, not the end in itself. So if XP provides everything that we need and runs efficiently, why should we spend time and money learning to find things on a totally new interface? If the answer is because MS wants to profit from our inconvenience and sell us something new and touch screens are this week's gimmicks, is it surprising that people are reluctant to upgrade? I think the real shame is that none of the Linux versions, as far as I know, can run XP software "out of the box". If there was an OS system equivalent in the same way that OpenOffice was easier for Word 2003 users to move to than Word 2007, then I'd happily go that route.

By ianbyrne on 8 Dec 2011

Out of Touch

"every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead.”

I think the person that made this statement is dead, or at the least not listening.

If everyone was to buy a touchscreen monitor to use this, what do we do with the 20 Million plus monitors that will need to be disposed of.

I for one will be sticking with my 24" widescreen & Windows 7.

So here we have the usual MS development cycle, a good one, a duff one.
MS 3.11
Windows 95
Windows 98
Millenium
XP
Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
and so the cycle will go on.

By roberttrebor on 8 Dec 2011

Out of Touch

"every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead.”

I think the person that made this statement is dead, or at the least not listening.

If everyone was to buy a touchscreen monitor to use this, what do we do with the 20 Million plus monitors that will need to be disposed of.

I for one will be sticking with my 24" widescreen & Windows 7.

So here we have the usual MS development cycle, a good one, a duff one.
MS 3.11
Windows 95
Windows 98
Millenium
XP
Vista
Windows 7
Windows 8
and so the cycle will go on.

By roberttrebor on 9 Dec 2011

Is Metro the new mouse?

Most computer users have several input devices on their desk. Instead of whining that metro doesn't work with the monitor, would it not be better to ask if metro would work with one of those input devices, or require a new one?

Consider the possibilities of a touch screen mouse running metro. Would you even need the start button any more? Or something like a wacom tablet with a micro-projector/camera on a stalk 12 inchs above it. Again, all the benifits of metro, near where your hand is anyway.

Both solutions would be expensive, but that's not an issue. Cost has always come down. The real question, would you like such a thing, in addition to your current arrangement? I would. I think most people would.

Thus my prediction for metro. It's not a Win7 killer. It's not an apple killer. It will ultimately end up being a mouse killer.

Or at least allow us to evolve beyond the current conception of mouse.

By ANTIcarr0t on 9 Dec 2011

Is Metro the new mouse?

Most computer users have several input devices on their desk. Instead of whining that metro doesn't work with the monitor, would it not be better to ask if metro would work with one of those input devices, or require a new one?

Consider the possibilities of a touch screen mouse running metro. Would you even need the start button any more? Or something like a wacom tablet with a micro-projector/camera on a stalk 12 inchs above it. Again, all the benifits of metro, near where your hand is anyway.

Both solutions would be expensive, but that's not an issue. Cost has always come down. The real question, would you like such a thing, in addition to your current arrangement? I would. I think most people would.

Thus my prediction for metro. It's not a Win7 killer. It's not an apple killer. It will ultimately end up being a mouse killer.

Or at least allow us to evolve beyond the current conception of mouse.

By ANTIcarr0t on 9 Dec 2011

SOME OF US NEED SPACE

I, like many others, tend to work with several documents/files/reference books open on the desk in between the keyboard and the monitor/s. If the new system requires a touch screen or, worse, more steps for each action (if a facility is included to permit PC users to continue using keyboard/mouse)then I predict that there will be vast numbers who will give it a wide berth. One extra step added to each action may seem insignificant but adds a lot of extra actions and time by the end of the day! MS could well catch another "Vista cold" if they are not careful!

By pmcvw1 on 9 Dec 2011

Dinasaurs[sic]

Come on people,
"Are you still doin' what you were doin' [20] years ago?

You ARE! Well don't make a career outa it!" (apolgies to Mark E Smith)

Do you really want to stick with what is fundamentally the same UI that rolled-out with NT?

Despite all the gloom & doom, I'm sure that there'll be Metro & POW (Plain Old Windows) available to taste \ hardware capabilities.

Windows start-up will most likely be tweaked to make it more rhodent-friendly.

It wouldn't be difficult for MS to build-in an 'autoswitch' that boots directly into the appropriate interface for the hardware you're running (you could of course over-ride).

The attitude from many on this thread is that MS will somehow be forcing people to do things 'their way'. Lest we forget that is actually Apple\Jobs's play. Historically MS has erred on the side of laissez-faire, which has made for great flexibility for Nerds, but lots of flack too.

By wittgenfrog on 9 Dec 2011

Windows good/bad version pattern

@rupert2001 and @robertrebor

What qpw3141 said. Plus your good/bad Windows version pattern only works because you have conveniently missed out Windows NT and Windows 2000.

By rbamforth on 9 Dec 2011