Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones

Galleries?

Just to be clear, does this mean that the provisional ban has been granted solely on the basis of the way the Galaxy smartphones browse galleries and none of the other issues raised by Apple?

Because if that's the case, my Galaxy S browses galleries in the same way as an iPhone as much as it also browses them in the same way as every other capacitive-based touchscreen device.

Which is to say you use your finger for scrolling.

I'm assuming for the purposes of this the fact that Galaxy S galleries angle depending on the orientation of the phone was not taken into account? Seeing as no other device did this before?

By bioreit on 24 Aug 2011

Google Translate...

Been catching up on this on Engadget and reading the Google translated version of the ruling - seems 'Galleries' is a slight misnomer, as it relates to the TouchWiz 'bounce' experienced when hitting the extremity of a menu while scrolling.

It is expected that Samsung will release an update shortly to negate this, meaning the one and only patent which the Dutch Judge ruled that Samsung had violated will effectively not apply to Samsung any more.

It was ruled that Samsung did not infringe on the other patents - such as 'appearance'.

By bioreit on 24 Aug 2011

"Which is to say you use your finger for scrolling." Not sure if that's the exact issue, but if it is, then Apple have the patent and they can use it to stop others. It is what patents are for.

Unlike the patent trolls, Apple do at least make the things they patent.

By MJ2010 on 24 Aug 2011

@bioreit

Yes, it does seem to suggest it is just on the one patent issue. The BBC story links to the specific patent (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14652482/) & then goes on to say "However, the judge rejected several other patent issues, as well as Apple's claim that Samsung had stolen many of its design ideas.".

From reading the patent (& trying to understand the legal-speak) it does seem to suggest that Apple have, somehow, managed to successfully (in some countries) patent the whole finger selection/scroll for photo galleries. Crazy stuff.

By JonnyB on 24 Aug 2011

crazy

Utterly ridiculous! This is just Apple trying to fight off competition so it can increase prices even more. If the courts can't see through it, then I hope Google steps in and uses some of those new Motorola patents.

By profet79 on 24 Aug 2011

oh Apple....

You know what happens to the school bully....

By CraigieDD on 24 Aug 2011

If that's the case then it would potentially be a patent that will be revoked because it may be deemed too generic in the face of smart phone necessity.

By skarlock on 24 Aug 2011

@ MJ2010

My original point has been rendered moot through further reading of this issue, but I would argue that being able to patent "using your finger for scrolling" on a touch screen device falls foul of the 'Obvious' clause in patents (yes, even in America).

But seeing as that is not what Apple were accusing Samsung of infringing, that's not worth me getting annoyed about :-)

By bioreit on 24 Aug 2011

At this rate, Apple will be the only company remaining in Europe that are selling computers and smartphones! Does world domination spring to mind?! *shakes fist at Apple*

By KlingonBatleth on 24 Aug 2011

Precursor of Touch devices = Palm

I imagine the tiny patent infringement will be something unique to Apple but not the ability to view galleries themselves as that has existed almost for ever.

If that is the case the infringement would be so minor that it should be laughed out of a reasonable court. This is Apple bullying a company that probably does not have a history in litigation.

By Manuel on 24 Aug 2011

Y'know

Despite my many caustic comments on here, I do genuinely think (from time to time) of giving Apple a chance and maybe buying an iPhone.

Then of course, they do something like this.

It's official, Apple have replaced Microsoft as the industry hate figure (just as Microsoft replaced IBM).

By Lacrobat on 24 Aug 2011

Appeal

Samsung - please don't give up the fight!

It's a ridiculous patent and should be laughed out of any sane court.

For many years, there have been and are many photo albums or galleries that users have been able to interact with, either on pda, a touchpad, mouse or even keyboards, to scroll through photos, documents or files either left to right or up and down. So in my opinion this patent is just bull.
Opera did a lot of work on mouse gestures years back - but I don't recall them patenting them - as I believe they regarded them as natural movement.

By nicomo on 24 Aug 2011

Missing the point

Whether it's nice or not, defending patents that a company or individual has invested in and have been granted by the authorities under law, is a legal and, frankly, often appropriate behaviour. Though misused in the eyes of many, patents exist to protect intellectual property. James Dyson's, the British engineering hero, would not have a business if he had been unable to protect his inventions. So where would you draw the line. Let people make apple clones? Copy entire Ford Fiestas?

By widgy2 on 24 Aug 2011

Funny ow SwissMac goes quiet at these stories. Even the fanboys are embarrassed by Apple's actions - says it all really.

By Aspicus on 24 Aug 2011

Aspicus Troll

lol!

By SwissMac on 24 Aug 2011

Ahh...the ultimate fanboi returns to grace us with his wealth of unbiased opinion....

By everton2004 on 24 Aug 2011

Aspicus

Do not underestimate the blindness of an apple fanboy. After all, that's part of what makes it a cult. ;)

By lkipper on 24 Aug 2011

Android 3.x doesn't infringe

A US report notes that Android 3.x does not infringe the patent (which is why the Galaxy Tab was not included in the suit) and so all Samsung have to do is upgrade the offending app.

By milliganp on 24 Aug 2011

@SwissMac

Yay! We were missing you. Tell us how this is all really MSs fault.

By Aspicus on 24 Aug 2011

Update

Apparently this *does* relate to the Gallery app on the Galaxy phones.

I have a Galaxy S and an iPod Touch and I'm comparing both of them right now. Apart from using my finger to scroll around the interface - as with the rest of the menus and apps - there's nothing similar about them.

The iPod (same as iPhone 3GS) initially presents a vertically scrolling column, with one option per line - the Galaxy S presents only three options, yes in a single-width column, but as a stack of photos rather than each album represented by one photo, as on the iPod. The iPod Photos app bounces upwards when you hit the top before snapping back (and vice versa) and has no side to side movement. The Galaxy S Gallery app has no vertical movement, but the whole view 'tilts' to the side depending on which way you go or how you tilt the phone.

Inside the albums it's even more different.

If this is supposed to be a patent which Samsung has infringed upon, I fear for pretty much everything, to be honest, as from what I can see there are no similarities beyond "using a finger to move around the interface". Which as I said before is pretty much a given for anything with a touch screen and Apple has no rights to that patent in any way, seeing as touch screen devices existed for years before Apple dreamed up the first iPhone and iPod.

Thing is, everyone's saying this is trouble for all Android phones as they all use the same Gallery app, but I'm pretty sure this is part of the TouchWiz interface so that wouldn't apply. Or if the default Android one is the issue, then this ruling must have no effect on UK distribution, as they are all sold with the TouchWiz interface in the UK.

Either way, pretty safe to say I won't be buying any more Apple products ever. Including iTunes and the App Store.

By bioreit on 24 Aug 2011

Damn!

Meant to also make the point that if Samsung is indeed deemed to have infringed due to Apple having successfully patented using a finger to scroll around a touchscreen interface, then Apple *must* sue every single touchscreen device manufacturer (including the companies who supply them) as well as all touchscreen OS makers and every single touchscreen interface app dev, as they will all be infringing that self-same patent.

If Apple doesn't, they risk losing the patent under US law - because as I understand it if you don't defend every instance of infringement, you are deemed to not care about it and general usage becomes permissible.

By bioreit on 24 Aug 2011

@Manuel

Er, this is Apple vs Samsung, not some tiny competitor. If Apple's patent attourneys believe Samsung have infringed one or several claims in Apple's patents, then Apple have every right to challenge Samsung, in the same way that any of Apple's competitors can challenge claims in Apple's patents that they believe are invalid/non-inventive/obvious to those "skilled in the art". It will then be up to a court to decide. I really don't see why anyone has any issue with this (I own some Apple hardware but I am in no way a "fanboi"). Apple appear to have replaced Microsoft as an evil organisation amongst some of the geek community.

By russell_g on 25 Aug 2011

@ russell_g

Speaking for myself, it's because Apple appears to have successfully patented the idea of using a finger as a navigation method on a touch screen device and is now using that patent to go after what many perceive to be its main competitor in phones and tablets, rather than going after all the countless infringers before it.

It's a flawed patent being used poorly as a tool to eliminate competition, not to protect Apple's assets.

By bioreit on 25 Aug 2011

Poor reporting by PCPro - IMHO

So Apple 'win' 1 of 9 patent issues and Samsung 'win' the other 8. So couldn't PCPro report on the other 8?
Also the injunction starts in October - only if Samsung have not changed a non essential piece of (Samsung added to Android) software. So no injunction yet and Samsung have an escape plan. Please Please PCPro do a decent bit of reporting - don't just quote Mueller.

By MikeRobins on 25 Aug 2011

Poissen Rotten Apple

Google/Samsung et al should take this serious and go to war.
I would be inclined to take the following steps to destroy Apple - no half measures, no compromises!
1> Target and buy any company owning patents, manufacturing technology or buy explicitly any patents from other companies which relate to technology in use by Apple. I would suggest that a primary target should be ARM, which could be targeted exclusively by Google or shared between Google, Samsung etc.
2>Cancel and withdraw any agreements or licenses relating to technology and patents including any ARM related licenses to Apple.
3>Collectively and individually take Apple to court in all jurisdictions simultaneously citing that Apple has stolen original ideas from various 3rd parties whose ideas predate all Apple technology, (i.e. Apple does not have an original bone in it's corporate body) is in breach of all patents, and has ignored an order to cease and desist manufacturing and selling products based on such technology as the ARM processor designs and requires Apple to buy back every single unit ever manufactured with generous interest.

4>Report Apple to appropriate legal bodies in all regions with a complaint that Apple is blatantly operating in an Anti-competitive and Monopolistic manner, citing unreasonable pricing, poorly specified products, and support in the form of upgrades designed to damage or inhibit older product with the view to forcing customers to buy a replacement unit.
Apple should be broken up Ma Bell style at least separating each OS division, Applications Divisions and various hardware divisions into independent companies with restrictions preventing any company or individual from owning shares in more than one at a time.

I don't think any company has every behaved in such a brazenly open and malicious manner in attempting to control the market and eliminate competition.

I would not subsequently be surprised if Apple following any subsequent legal action blocks sale of Android related product takes advantage of any weakness in share value of subject companies then spends it's $76Billion Buying majority holdings in key competitors and technology companies such as ARM, or even Google or Samsung, and uses this to kill Android and absorb any technology including patents into it's own portfolio and product range.

Hell, even now, I'm sure that the iPhone5 and iPad3 have been enhanced using third party technologies, designs and patents, so that Apple can then try to legitimately claim to be first to market with certain designs.

By j_woolliscroft on 25 Aug 2011

Advertising budget...

Just how much money are Apple investing in advertising Samsung's Galaxy line?

With these court cases, Apple have not only made people aware of the Galaxy Tab and Galaxy S series, they are telling prospective customers that they are exactly the same as an iPad...

So, Samsung have 7 weeks to shift stock and their products are effectively endorsed by Apple. You can't get better publicity for your products than that.

By big_D on 25 Aug 2011

Galaxy best alternate to iPhone

Get one now before they run out!
This seems to be the principal message of Apple's efforts in the European courts. This definitely seems to meet the definition for Pyrrhic Victory.

By milliganp on 25 Aug 2011

tesos

ive heard that steve jobs id taking Tescos to court for selling APPLES without his say so

By godber4 on 25 Aug 2011

If it's the bounce ...

... surely others have been doing that longer than Apple? That effect was on the early HTC Touch phones, which were around before the first iPhone.

By jgwilliams on 25 Aug 2011

@ jgwilliams

If it is the bounce, I can categorically say that on my Galaxy S (Samsung/Orange 2.2.1 Anrdoid) does not have the bounce in the Gallery, so I'm totally bemused by this.

By bioreit on 25 Aug 2011

@widgy2
"James Dyson's, the British engineering hero, would not have a business if he had been unable to protect his inventions."

Nothing original here, he took an age old industrial separating process and applied it to a domestic environment. Application not invention, should never of been given the patent.

And as for that washing machine that tore the clothes clean, over engineered in all the wrong ways and used more water than your local reservoir. Then the fan less fan, a classic example of using a ten ton hammer to crack the proverbial nut, only problem the price 10 -20 times what you would pay for any reasonable desk fan. Great british inventor my a**e, more like apple wannabe.

By davidk1962 on 25 Aug 2011

@widgy2
"James Dyson's, the British engineering hero, would not have a business if he had been unable to protect his inventions."

Nothing original here, he took an age old industrial separating process and applied it to a domestic environment. Application not invention, should never of been given the patent.

And as for that washing machine that tore the clothes clean, over engineered in all the wrong ways and used more water than your local reservoir. Then the fan less fan, a classic example of using a ten ton hammer to crack the proverbial nut, only problem the price 10 -20 times what you would pay for any reasonable desk fan. Great british inventor my a**e, more like apple wannabe.

By davidk1962 on 25 Aug 2011

So...

On all the patent claims that MIGHT have given Samsung real grief - they've won. Good news. And on the one where they've lost they can fix it with an OTA update even assuming the preliminary injunction stands after a full hearing, which it may well not do.

By nichomach0 on 25 Aug 2011

Apple are feeling peeled.

It's obvious that Apple are running scared of the competition in case the wool gets pulled from their customers eyes as to how "good" Apple products really are.

By birdmaniw on 25 Aug 2011