TalkTalk blasts Government's free laptop scheme

Gobsmacked. I agree with most of that. That's not right.

By c6ten on 12 Jan 2010

Look at the figures...

£300mill split 270k ways is £1111 a pop. That seems like quite a lot to me.

There are plenty of providers that offer broadband for about £15 per month, so that's £180. You can pick up a very good laptop for £500 (and that's retail inc VAT and Delivery).

So whose back pocket is the other £430 x 270,000 (£116mill) going into?

And why do they need a laptop anyway? They may be low income but that doesn't stop them walking down to the local library, joining up, and using the internet facilities there does it?

That's what I did back when I couldn't afford a computer.

By drajs on 12 Jan 2010

I'm looking

@drajs. "back when" you couldn't afford a computer, broadband internet wasn't nearly as essential in everyday life. banking, government services, communication, shopping, information. This is all online now in a dominant way that was not the case even 5 years ago. You need a laptop to operate in 2010. library is not enough - too restrictive, putting the poor at a competitive disadvantage, which this initiative seeks to address.
As for talktalk, perhaps it should stop sounding off about broadband tax and government laptops, and sort out its mediocre broadband service. chopchop.

By gavmeister on 12 Jan 2010

Why laptop?

I agree "why a laptop" what's wrong with a desk top? Cheaper, more reliable, more versatile, more upgradeable, less steal-worthy, better value.

By Phoomeister on 13 Jan 2010

Disbelief

I honestly cannot believe how ignorant so many people can be.

Rural communities do not all equal second-home enclaves, or upper middle-class refuges. In fact, the vast majority of them do not, unless you think that old mining communities in the depths of Wales, or isolated Scottish villages are particularly attractive to the top rate tax-banders.

I have a cousin who lives in Scotland who has pretty much written off the prospect of Internet access - there's just no hope of her getting anything usable, so she just doesn't try any more. And that's only a couple of dozen miles out of Glasgow! When she needs the Internet, she goes to the city to upload her work and check things - not exactly convenient...

Also, with regards to the costs, I wasn't aware that this would only be to provide broadband access for a single year!? I mean, where do they say that? Or is it that they only give you a year, then after you've got all settled and used to it, they yank it away from you, unless you pay? :rollseyes:

Finally, I've worked in schools for over 5 years and I can say that there is a definite divide between the haves and have-nots in terms of computer access - there is so much more information online these days, that the parents who cannot access it are left seriously disadvantaged - and seeing as they're the ones who often need the most assistance....

There's also a complete lack of understanding shown when people bang on about "just have after school clubs", etc. Yeah, for grammar schools and good comprehensives, that's certainly an option for the dozen or so kids who don't have a computer - in my current school, we'd need to accomodate at least 200 kids in computer clubs - who's going to pay the overtime for support and the staff? Assuming people are willing to surrender so many week days. Give it a year or two of forking out for that and you may as well pay for laptops and broadband.

By bioreit on 13 Jan 2010

Why Laptop?

On the surface, I agree, it doesn't seem to make sense, I wonder if this is down to a government report (a few years ago) which found a high percentage of "lower income" families do not have a space set aside for the children to do homework? If these kids don't have a desk tucked away in a quiet corner somewhere, a desktop and monitor isn't going to be much use to them for helping with homework.

By Bassey1976 on 13 Jan 2010

I live in Scotland

and enjoy 50Mbit down and 5Mbit up speeds.

By TheGMan on 13 Jan 2010

I live in Scotland

and enjoy 50Mbit down and 5Mbit up speeds.

By TheGMan on 13 Jan 2010

If this is the case

I'll be popping down to the nearest 'Cash Convertors' or equivalent the day after the laptops arrive.

You'll probably get a bargain, as the pawnbrokers will be full to the brim with 'state sponsored laptops' that are being cashed in for all sorts of reasons.

Perhaps what we need to sort out is a very basic netbook, with a locked down linux-based user interface, that allows access to national portals eg. direct.gov.uk and plain websites. And stuff the old idea about needing to give them tech support! Just put ChromeOS on it, then there's just a browser, and no taxpayer money wasted on Windows.

If this ever comes to light, I certainly hope the contract is put out to tender in steps (ie. tender for operating system (ChromeOS), tender for RAM (256MB), tender for CPU (ARM chip, tender for storage (512MB NAND) etc. Keep it cheap and keep it basic!

Don't add Web 2.0 support, as this 'handout' should be for 'official' use such as filling in tax returns. No facebook on here, as it is taxpayer funded.

And while we're at it, broadband would possibly be overkill. How about the gov't making a site for these PCs that is plain text, nice and simple, each page being less than 2KB. Then just give them '1690' dialup. And, as a bonus, phone can't be used simultaneously, keeping the costs down.

Remember this isn't meant to be a recreational computer, this is paid for by 'us', so it had better be very basic to prevent non-essential use.

And FWIW, I get 8Mbps downstream on home line (Haven't moved to ADSL2+ yet), and I get 2Mbps downstream, 800Kbps upstream on my phone.

By GlasgowGuy on 13 Jan 2010

Crazy

Lets see.You are on very low income and you live 5 to a room with hot & cold running water....down the walls.You have trouble paying for food and the rent along with finding enough money to feed the electricity meter.I think if i was in that situation,worring about broadband access with a PC would be the least of my problems !

By Jaberwocky on 13 Jan 2010

Bloody Crazy, what next?

It's just crazy yet another reason why being on the dole is so much better than working?
I have worked but not working now and living off savings, but not claiming (can't)

I hear so many of my friends weighing it up in the pub saying how much better off they will be for NOT working as they are now going to get a laptop and broadband (which they already have both and can afford as they have SKY and free broadband and calls)
So what next are the government going to team up with BMW to them a decent car so they can travel the roads more safely and not feel left out?
bloody crazy.

By pcdev on 14 Jan 2010

Angry of rural

Let me start by saying that I use Talktalk and have for the last 3 years for both phone and broadband.

This report has angered me enough to comment (which is a rare thing).

Talktalk's assertion that everybody who lives in rural areas is well off the mark, and that the prime driver for the tax is to provide super fast broadband speeds for these well off folk is completely erroneous.

I live in a (relatively) rural area and let me tell you that the demographic mix in my village (and the local small town, and every other local village) is just as varied as it is in every large city I have lived in before.

As a country, we have a much more diverse set of habitable locations than countries such as Japan, for example, which is mainly cityscape. This does not mean that we should only provide good quality, fast broadband to those who live in cities.

I am extremely disappointed by Talktalk's comments as I had previously considered them to be one of the more progressive operators.

I'm afraid that my view of Talktalk has been severely diminished by their comments in this regard and as a consequence, I am now considering leaving them. However, *sigh*, not sure that BT are any better and as my local exchange has no LLU operators, then my choice is not very wide.

By IANAT2 on 14 Jan 2010

Usual government mess

From what I understand of the original proposal the laptop was supposed to be a very basic model, possibly along the lines of a netbook or a basic 15.6" laptop. Not exactly a gamers laptop. But with more and more homework resources been online along with much of the gov services a basic connection is needed.
The idea of trying to use the library for homework depends on there been a space but the local libraries are usually full.
The excessive cost of providing the laptops is down to the usual muddled thinking of the government when it comes to any technology programme and a total inability to manage costs. Plus, two years on from the original announcement I do not know anyone who has actually been given a laptop or a broadband connection.
The person from talk talk must spend most of his time in the city or at their second country home as their comments are just as muddled.
2MBs is not superfast broadband in my book
and many people in Northumberland still cannot get a repliable connection at that speed in fairly large towns, never mind in small villages. But, they do have a point about having to prop up failing business models for the entertainment industry. They should be told that they are not getting any help and have to sort themselves out, the same as every other business.
Providing a legal means to buy movies etc. online would go a long way to cut down on copyright infringement.

By dtpdesign on 14 Jan 2010

Dividing £300,000,000 by 270,000 gives a cost per low income family of £1,111. A perfectly adequate laptop for a student can be purchased for £400. Add a years broadband subsciption of say £100 max this gives a total cost of £500. Presumably the remaining £600+ is spent on administration and bureaucracy.

Typical of this government's inability to do anything properly.

By goodteam on 14 Jan 2010

Dividing £300,000,000 by 270,000 gives a cost per low income family of £1,111. A perfectly adequate laptop for a student can be purchased for £400. Add a years broadband subsciption of say £100 max this gives a total cost of £500. Presumably the remaining £600+ is spent on administration and bureaucracy.

Typical of this government's inability to do anything properly.

By goodteam on 14 Jan 2010

Literacy

In a post office a couple of years ago I stood behind the Monday morning queue for pensions.

The elderly gentleman in front of me was asked to enter his pin code. He was utterly confused.

He said "I don't know anything about compooters".

I felt sorry for him, adrift in a world he no longer recognises.

On the other hand, people use phones, which are more complex than entering a pin number, but they have been around seemingly forever.

But anyway these are the lucky people. What about the significant portion of our population that is functionally illiterate, or immigrants who have never seen the need to learn English?

Do we intend to provide personal assistants for these people when they turn on their laptops, just like we do when they are interviewed in benefits offices?

By fogtax on 14 Jan 2010

More state handouts....

why does the taxpayer have to pay so that lazy jobless people get a free laptop.

laptops are so cheap these days and state benefit handouts so large that I cannot imagine any family cannot afford a basic model... i would like to know how many of these so called "low-income families" are not spending their benefits on cigarettes or alcohol

By kingct on 14 Jan 2010

Government just trying to win votes

This is ridiculous. It is just a failing government trying to win bac to votes its lost.

I agree with one of the formost comments, this is a lot of money to spend! Also from my experience with lower income families, the two things they almost always manage to get hold of are mobile phones and laptops anyway!

I disagree the tax is so richer people can get faster net in the country. Its just seen a area it isnt making money on yet. Labour is still a left wing party and has made life for the middle class extremely expensive!

By Crants87 on 18 Jan 2010

Retailer point of view

I work for one of the major electrical retailers that are issuing these free laptops. It is unbelieveable how many of the people who have been awarded this oppertunity complain about the specification of the laptop they are getting for free. It is supposed to be used for primary school children to do homework yet they want webcams and high end processors and memory. Alot also reserve their machine online (caus they already own a laptop and internet). Alot who have applied for the laptop have also applied for the free broadband too, and they take the dongal even though they already are internet connected.
There are the odd genuine family who are very grateful who have been using the library up to now but those people are the "exception" not the normal people we get in.
The laptop we provide is a specific model and I've checked Ebay and there are alot for sale, god knows how many have been sold down the pub for a quick fix that day?
I am outraged by the whole scheme myself and find it hard to be polite to people when they call in for their free laptop. My husband and I are moderately well off and we have two children aged 7 and 9 and we can't find any spare cash to buy them their own laptop. Every one I know who is on benifits says they find it hard to make ends meet yet their laptops, mobiles and TV are all better than mine. They all smoke and drink too, which, even if I wanted to I couldn't afford to do either! Some of the people comming in for the free laptops are driving Audi's and BMW's. Why on earth should anyone bother working in the country anymore?

By taxpayer2 on 28 Apr 2010