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hywelt
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 3604
Location: Ditton
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 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Current displays use 3 sub-pixels per 'pixel'. These are 6 bit or 8 bit. So that's 190 or 766 distinct colours.
Technically then, no manufacturer can claim to display 'thousands', let alone 'millions' of colours, but only approximations of those colours.
Dell, to it's credit here (I've not looked at any other supplier), doesn't even mention colour on it's cheapest monitor, and on a more expensive one has a suitably vague "delivers high colour accuracy and uniformity".
This does mean you're not at all sure of what you're getting, but they're not lying.
Apple is lying. Ive no idea whether it is through negligence or it is a calculated deciept. It doesn't really matter. The case seems perfectly valid to me. I hope Apple learns from this.
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Gindylow
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 1067
Location: Áth an tSléibhe
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Apart from size, the CRT's seem to handle uniformity of Tone, viewing angle, refresh rate and colour depth all in one package.
LCD's make you choose...
The Dell in question was reviewed somewhere as having the 8 bit depth as was the 24" apple.
I'm just worried that these screens have been ditched by both for "cost" reasons...
I'm not paying out $$ for a 6bit screen...  |
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big_D
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 15986
Location: Bramsche
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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No TFT on the market is able to display true colour (24-bit).
Most have, at most, a 6-bit GLUT.
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Gindylow
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 1067
Location: Áth an tSléibhe
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I've checked...
| Quote: | i've been very surprised to read several reviews that explain the 2407 panel is now a six bit display, where the 2405 was an 8-bit, superior display. the 6-bit display however, gives a slightly faster response time. for photographers and people generally interested in image quality, this is unfortunate.
also i hear that the media card reader that was on the 2405 has also been dropped in this er, up?grade.
surprising to see this review ignore these issues, but i'm interested to hear responses. |
taken from http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6535479.html
My worst suspicions realised. |
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Gindylow
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 1067
Location: Áth an tSléibhe
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ok checked a bit further and between these two links anyone can get the monitor they need...
Read Jaguar SK post on this forum...
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245169-15-displays
Then have alook at this monitor selector page...
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/selector.htm (Mkae sure you answer each radio button or it returns a blank page from the form query.
And it recommended me the Dell below...
Dell 2407WFP-HC or the BenQ FP241W both use the first articles "mid range" technologies rather than TN type panels. |
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Amnesia10
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 18832
Location: Brighton home to more Apple stores than Belfast.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| big_D wrote: | No TFT on the market is able to display true colour (24-bit).
Most have, at most, a 6-bit GLUT. |
To be honest my MBP is fine I cant really see the difference. I am very happy with the screen. Plenty of colours and all lots fine from a non specialists perspective.
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paulzolo
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 3761
Location: Chelmsford, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Windows XP claims "16-Bit", "24-Bit" and "32-Bit" - and much like Mac OSX and Linux, it throws the requisite number of bits at the video circuitry.
At the other end, the display hardware has to take this data and do something with it.
When the previous hoohah about this arose, it transpired that:
a) Apple is not the only company at fault - no LCD panels can display "millions of colours" - some can display more colours than others.
b) If successful, legal action would force the entire display industry would be forced to re-word and re specify their products - not just Apple.
c) The grades of screens fitted to iMacs varies between models. At the time, the 20" panel was the better of the two available (17" ones were worse).
d) Properly calibrated screens (ie hardware calibrated displays) will show less artefacting than those which are un-calibrated, or calibrated by eye.
You notice that both of the systems which have been targeted are consumer units. iMacs and MacBooks.
Clicky
So far, no mention of how this sits in relation to the Pro displays that Apple put out. Note that the previous action was settled out of court - I suspect that this new one is a spot of opportunistic gold-digging.
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jdarrellg
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: Apple colours |
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| I think either some people are up to mischief, or they smell the potential of money. They should know that display colour resolution is a function of the current technology - period. |
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davidnutley
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to sue all of 'em.
Monitors are made up of only three colours I tell you, three! Red, Green and Blue. I'm going to make squillions here!
I have a 30 inch Cinema Display and my wife has a new 24" iMac display, and I've got to say her screen always amazes me when I look at it, I guess it's the glass v the plastic of my screen but it looks so crisp and sharp on the iMac. Photoshop files I've been messing around with for days look so much better of her screen. I guess its horses for courses. Some people need a lot more gamut that I do.
Clearly I can't tell the difference between 300 thousand colours and 1 million so sadly I won't be bandwagoning the lawsuit today... |
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Anonymous
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Apple colours |
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| jdarrellg wrote: | | I think either some people are up to mischief, or they smell the potential of money. They should know that display colour resolution is a function of the current technology - period. |
Mischief? Only Apple.
It would be like BMW selling an M3 that can only do 60mph but claiming it can do 155mph - it is lying and no company should get away with it. Apple put in a cheaper 6-bit panel to save on costs and maximise profit. You know that with Apple you are actually paying for an 8bit panel.
davidnutley - the lawsuit applies to the 20" panel, not the 24". |
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petemackenzie
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Apparently the 24" does show "millions" of colours. It would be interesting to see them side by side to see what the real world differences are. |
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Amnesia10
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 18832
Location: Brighton home to more Apple stores than Belfast.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Apple colours |
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| jdarrellg wrote: | | I think either some people are up to mischief, or they smell the potential of money. They should know that display colour resolution is a function of the current technology - period. |
Agreed the problem was that not many others really noticed the "lack of colours" so the class action failed. I guess the same would apply with this case.
_________________
I am still writing my autobiography at the moment and I expect it to be finished in late 2016. I think that I now have enough for a second volume.
Web page coming soon!!! Due for release 11.23 am Thursday 15th June 2017 Approximately. |
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paulzolo
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 3761
Location: Chelmsford, England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Apple colours |
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| Amnesia10 wrote: | | jdarrellg wrote: | | I think either some people are up to mischief, or they smell the potential of money. They should know that display colour resolution is a function of the current technology - period. |
Agreed the problem was that not many others really noticed the "lack of colours" so the class action failed. I guess the same would apply with this case. |
First off - if you are serious about editing photos, then you MUST calibrate your screen.
Run, don’t walk, to your nearest computer shop and buy a hardware screen calibrator like this:
Clicky (this is an example - there are other units available too).
Do NOT under any circumstances trust the built in calibration process. These rely on your eye being good at spotting colour shifts, and no matter how much you say your eyesight is good at doing this, you will be horribly wrong. Hardware calibration tools the only way to get a decent monitor profile.
Then tell your OS to use the new profile for the display, and tell your image editing software that you are using this profile too. If your OS or image editing software does not support colour profiling if this nature, then I'll suggest that you are not using the right OS or software. I'll let others bicker about this.
Before I used a hardware calibration device, I was using my eyes and judgement, and yes, colours on my display were not as good as they could be. I'd see banding, some dithering and shifts in tone and contrast. You kind of get used to this after a while, so when I did start using a hardware calibrator, the change was quite dramatic. There was evenness over the display, and the banding in tonal gradients was gone. Every new machine/display I get is calibrated before I even think about letting in to a production stream now.
I am wondering how the people in this new suit have calibrated their screens (if at all). If they have not calibrated them, or have done the "squint and hope" process, then they need to have colour calibration quietly explained to them.
Editing photos on an out of the box machine running Mac OSX, Windows (any flavour) or Linux on an un-calibrated display is asking for trouble.
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tombolt
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 9256
Location: Dorchester, Dorset
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Gindylow wrote: | | If nothing else this just highlights the fact that flatscreens are a step backwards for designers in some ways. |
God are they ever. And now it's impossible to get hold of new CRTs.
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tombolt
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 9256
Location: Dorchester, Dorset
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| earlybomblight wrote: | | And a backward step in TVs too. |
Exactly. Especially as we haven't taken on HD yet.
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