Steve is correct.

I think a big problem is, the lay-man really doesn’t understand how software works or what goes into producing an application. If you haven’t actually written code, you can’t really understand about the processes involved and how hard it is to write error free code.

There are some bad programmers and companies out there, who produce junk code and should have their arses sued off… Microsoft isn’t among them. Considering the size of their codebase and the number of hardware configurations they use and the sheer number of users, their software isn’t that bad!

Could it be better? Yes, given time and money, any software can be improved. The problem is economics. People kick up about paying €150-200 for Windows now. Put the price up to €50,000 or €100,000 per licence to get it error free and not many people will be interested! The same goes for OS X, it (currently) produces fewer headlines, but look at the number of fixes for may, it was well over 50. Linux is the same, but instead of a bumped price, you will be talking years between releases…

You can’t have cheap and frequently improved AND bug free. It is always a trade-off. You get as many of the big, critical bugs out of the ways as you can find, before release, then you keep the team plugging away at holes as they crop up.

Car manufacturers do the same – in fact, they often do risk assessment to work out how many deaths due to a defect are “acceptable” (i.e. payouts to affected families), compared to the additional cost in R&D to fix it.

Obviously Paul hasn’t written any software if he thinks it is realistic to ensure it is 100% bug-free before launch. Even the most exceptional care – taking years – can still result in errors creeping through. Remember the loss of that Mars explorer?

The bottom line that Paul needs to understand is that if he expects all software to be 100% bug free, then he’ll need to move to some parallel universe.

Paul obviously hasn’t used much software, either, if he thinks Microsoft software is substantially worse than average for bugs. Having used dozens of OSs and hundreds of assorted applications since the IBM PC was invented, I can assure Paul that – in terms of bugs – there have been some truly appalling software products that make anything Microsoft has done look superb. And there have been some astonishingly good products that make Microsoft’s own look distinctly flaky.

Bearing in mind that most MS software tends to be pretty “big” – like operating systems or its Office suite, I have to say that it is really about average when it comes to bugginess.

Thack

Having worked on openSUSE for a couple of years, Linux isn’t any better in terms of code reliability. It has its own share of quality and security issues. There might not be as many headline grabbing errors, but there are plenty out there – otherwise, why are there constant security patches for Linux and its supporting apps?

We are currently running LAMP servers for our websites. The number of memory leaks that PHP has is unbelievable – although post 5.2 it is much better. I tested an app on XAMPP on my Windows machine, it used a maximum of 13MB of memory. Moved it to the live server, which was using 5.1.6, the memory leaks meant that some things stopped working, FULL STOP and others blew the 512MB per process memory limit applied to the app! As we couldn’t update the production server, we had to re-write the code to work around the memory leak problems…

But, at the end of the day, Linux has the same problem that commercial software has. It can respond at times faster to critical security issues, but it also requires somebody to be interested in a specific package! There are a lot of good packages out there, which have severe errors, but nobody currently owning the project.

If software had to be 100% bug free, before release, Linux would have exactly the same issues as Windows or OS X. The thing with OSS software is, many people are willing to install it and put up with the bugs, because it is free.

Microsoft is an easy target, but no software company, and that includes bastions of OSS like IBM, Novell, RedHat and Canonical also suffer from the same sorts of problems, they just don’t get the headline grabbing stories.

Paid products should be semi-stable upon release. Any wonder why the internet runs on Linux?

I don’t agree with MS anti-piracy tactics. I purchased a legit copy of XP & (being a Linux user) installed it on both of my machines… and then gave it away. I didn’t see anything saying I can’t give it away to my friend. I have since un-installed the buggy software because I can’t fix it myself like I do with Linux.

And just for the record, Ubuntu has regular updates and I get to chose what I want (or need).

big_D Says: “At a guess I would say we would see Windows 7 appear in 2040, OS X Snow Leopard in, maybe, 2035, the next Ubuntu in around 2050 and Adobe CS 5? Maybe 2070 or 2080… :-S And then you’d probably still find bugs in the code, once they were in users hands. And how much would they cost? :-O”

Reply – if you paid for it, I agree. But Ubuntu is FREE! They will send you a CD if you ask for it. FREE!! Please check the facts.

I know a major computer manufacturer preparing to roll out Ubuntu with their new machines and more are jumping ship away from Microsofts predatory practices… so continue to enjoy your buggy software. I can crash my machine if I decide to, not because I have too many windows open.

If that were the case, you’d be back to writing your own software to do anything!

“If a car manufacturer had done the same thing, it would be out of business. But software companies are getting of FAR to easy.”

A car is a relatively simple thing to develop and manufacture. Software is far more complex. And look at car manufacturers, there a regular recalls to take cars back to dealers for remedial work.

My Escort Mk 4 had a recall for the plastic wheel arch liners – there was a remote possibility that they could sever the brake lines!

My 5 series BMW was recalled because the engine bore linings were poorly coated!

My current Mondeo has had 2 updates to the engine management system and 2 updates to the onboard computer, which controls the music centre and the climate control, among other things. There is also a recurring problem with the antenne, I’ve had it replaced/repaired 5 times in 4 years!

GM had a huge recall on their off-road vehicles a few years ago, down to the OEM tyres they fitted. The GM (Vauxhall/Opel) Sintra was pulled from the market because it was too dangerous, the Chrysler Voyager failed most Euro safety tests, some of the cheape Chinese cars coming over onto the European market are failing German tests and are not being cleared for sale here. The previous generation of Dacias were deathtraps! The old Ford Pinto? That became a standing joke in Ameircan TV and films for over 3 decades! Shall I go on?

With software, it is even more complex and a lot of things only occur once the product is used in “real world” conditions. Users always find ways of doing things that you never thought about.

Yes, software companies should be held accountable for due dilligence and to repair faults quickly and efficiently, once they are discovered is fine. But to wait for Microsoft, Apple, Ubuntu, Adobe etc. to actually release 100% bug free software? It just isn’t realistic.

At a guess I would say we would see Windows 7 appear in 2040, OS X Snow Leopard in, maybe, 2035, the next Ubuntu in around 2050 and Adobe CS 5? Maybe 2070 or 2080… :-S And then you’d probably still find bugs in the code, once they were in users hands. And how much would they cost? :-O

Yes, some companies are worse than others. Some release software too early. But no reasonably complex software (i.e. operating system or productivity package, games etc.) can be 100% error free these days, there is just too much code in there!

Given the mixture of thorough testing, marketing and users complaining about how expensive software is, you are not going to get error free software in the current market. If you are willing to pay €50-100K for a Windows licence and wait until it is complete, THEN you might get relatively secure and bug free software.

But if you want it a) cheap b) backward compatible c) NOW you are going to have to settle for it being filled with bugs and security holes, which will get fixed as and when they are found…

This is why I would LOVE to see the EU legislation go through, where software developers are actually liable for their code.

If a car manufacturer had done the same thing, it would be out of business. But software companies are getting of FAR to easy.