“Stargate Atlantis is rubbish. This is a fact.”

What is wrong with you? You obviously can’t tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. If Atlantis was rubbish, it wouldn’t have lasted 5 seasons and have a movie on the way. Just because you think something, doesn’t make it fact, and doesn’t make anyone who enjoys it wrong for doing so. What a stupid, arrogant thing to say for a supposedly professional site. Trully pathetic. Especially coming from PC Pro.

David Bayon, I had never heard of you or of PCPro before today, but after you just characterized a show I enjoyed as “Stargate Atlantis is rubbish. This is a fact,” I now know PCPro as a place for people who are ignorant and mean to get together to insult the things that many other people love. Thanks.

Also, given that you said, “This one single photo should tell you just how rubbish it is, but if it doesn’t, well, let me tell you: It’s rubbish. Really,” that shows me that people at PCPro form strong opinions and express them loudly and without tact based on the most superficial of observations and without actually investigating the subject matter. I’m sure glad I found that out about PCPro before I did anything foolish like buy from one of your advertisers.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

And thanks for insulting me and a bunch of people who know nothing else who otherwise knew nothing about your company, but who came here to read a story about SGA.

Thanks for the stats on downloading. SGA might move up a notch since the last two episodes – pre-screeners -are now circling the web …

I don’t know why you say the show is rubbish. I like it, it’s been a fun ride the last 5 years. The cast is good, the stories sometimes kind of silly, but on the whole it’s been very entertaining. Why insult the great many people who do like this show by calling it rubbish? Couldn’t you just say it is not a personal favorite of yours and leave it at that? It’s kind of mean, and I agree with one of the above comments, I wouldn’t buy anything from someone who advertises on your page, just cause you have insulted me, and I don’t like it.

Hysterical kids freaking out leads to Atlantis being rubbish how?
PS – definitely NOT a kid

I think you make an interesting point on the need for simultaneous broadcasting of shows — that’s always seemed ridiculous to me. I know I didn’t like it when the episodes aired in Canada months ahead of airing in the U.S., and I can’t imagine the frustration of waiting a year or more.

Regarding your implication that only kids watch SGA, I’m a 50-ish business professional with a Masters degree. And a lot of my business professional friends enjoy the show, too. Unfortunately the powers that be at the Stargate franchise have misunderstood the demographics like you have, as evidenced by their pushing of Stargate: Universe, alternately known in the fandom as Stargate: 90210, Babygate, etc.

On the other comment you made about SGA being “rubbish,” I’ll allow for possible differences in connotations for the word (where I live, it means garbage). I disagree with its applicability based on my country’s use and definition, but what I particularly object to is your use of the above photo to represent the quality of the show.

I’ve watched every episode, and Ronan may have worn those weird arm things once (guy with the dreds), Weir never wears jeans (the woman on the ottoman), and what the heck is that brown shirt on Rodney??? Where did that come from?

Though Beckett (rolled up sleeves) and Sheppard (in front) more closely resemble their characters, even their outfits strike a false note. The only actor who actually looks like their character is Teyla (the girl in the back).

(And everyone — except maybe Beckett — is so SERIOUS in this shot. Sheesh, you’ll have folks thinking this show is positively grim! One thing I love about it is the sense of fun.)

Now to (finally) get to my point: Is it considered good journalistic practice at your organization to dig up one of the worst examples you can find to illustrate the overall quality of a show, in order to shore up the point you’re trying to make? Can you spell b-i-a-s?

As in most scifi, there ARE lessons to be learned from this show if you’re open to them, and if you don’t base your opinion on a few scattered episodes. What I see as the driving point of the entire run is this — just because a group of people is more technologically advanced than those around them doesn’t mean that “helping” others won’t make things worse for everyone. A pointed lesson for some of us, hmm?

So, drama and fun and life lessons, too … doesn’t sound like “garbage” to me. No wonder people all over the world want to watch it.

Entertainment industry? Heads in sand? Still? Sure……

Bookmarked your post over at Blog Bookmarker.com!…

People don’t complain here because “someone dared to offend their favorite show”.
No, people complain here because PCPro is supposed to be a professional site with OBJECTIVE articles.
I myself am not a stargate fan. To me, it’s just another SciFi show. But that’s just MY OPINION.
You on the other hand, are saying it definitly IS a rubbish show (even with the differences in meaning, you probably didn’t mean it in a good way) just because YOU think that and use that a lot of people download it as an argument…
As I already said, this is supposed to be a professional site. People who never/hardly watch Stargate will think it really is rubbish, and leave here as Stargate-haters, without ever having seen the show.

You also aren’t the best one in giving arguments. You think it’s a bad show because A LOT of people download it. Most other people (so NORMAL people) would see it as an argument for how good the show it. THIS is another argument of how UNprofessional you are.

As many others, before this article, I’ve never even heard about PCPro. I can imagine this will attract a lot of visitors, but it doubt it will be good for it’s reputation. I, for my side, know I will NEVER trust this site on it’s contents as it’s just another SUBJECTIVE and FLAMING site. Then again, this is just MY OPINION, wich doesn’t make it a fact.

I also took a quick peek at your other reviews, and it’s clear this isn’t the first time you claim your OPINIONS are facts. You definitly don’t know how to write objective articles.

If I were you, I’d think about the sake of PCPro and either radically change my way of writing, or leave and write articles for unprofessional sites, like some hobbiest blog. Because if this would have been just another 3rd party site or a hobbiest blog, nobody would have cared.

And a quick hint towards PCPro: You might want to review David’s writing, as you’re probably paying this guy to ruin your reputation.

So once again: David, two very important lessons you obviously never learned:
OPINIONS ARE NOT FACTS
SUBJECTIVE and UNPROFESSIONAL writing does not belong on OBJECTIVE and PROFESSIOANAL sites.

This for example, was a SUBJECTIVE comment.

I was going to write a rant about this article and David Bayon, but i seem to have been beaten to the punch by…. well everyone really. I have never been on this website before today and i doubt i will ever grace its pages again after this farcical article. What sort of person is allowed to write and give their opinion and claim it as fact? SGA is a well written fun show, and you obviously have some issues if by looking at a picture you can deem something rubbish…… Wonder how many pictures there are on the net circulating of you calling you rubbish… FACT!

One thing i think majority of people will agree with is that you are a rubbish journalist – That is a fact.

This site is really reaching the bottom of the barrel if they post articles like this by people by you – This is a fact.

This website will probably be more popular now because of this article, as it has shown how naive its writers are – This is a fact.

Being that i have now put it in writing it seems to be factual now.

Merry Christmas – Fact

Well…David has stirred up a hornets nest hasn’t he? As a 47 year old IT pro who reads the Mag each month and checks the news and blog pages every day I have to 1) agree that the TV industry has a way to go to understand the needs and wants of their customers and 2) state that I enjoy Atlantis (though i preferred Stargate SG1, it’s forerunner) and think that David’s opinion is his to hold but I’ll continue to differ.
Still, 18 responses to a Blog posting on PC Pro blog…is that a record? LOL

I get the idea that none of these comments are actually reading what one another – or anyone else – has said, which rather fills me with a sense of irony, over the complaints relating to bias, or balance, or objectivity. Objective statements about “rubbish” on christmas day afternoon is a bit of a tall order…

But I’m now suffering a bit from a sense of confusion, over what Louise has said. What is “the argument” here and what are “the sides”? Presumably the SG fans like the fact that the production company decided to spend a lot of money producing something they can support so avidly (back to xmas day afternoon): can anyone explain how bigging up the SG massive as it pertains to copyright-busting downloads, counts as striking a blow for anything other than being just a bit detached from reality? Because I don’t get it. “Im such aa huge fan, I don’t pay a bean for watching” is so irrational, it’s hard to know where to start.

“Stargate Atlantis is rubbish. This is a fact. This one single photo should tell you just how rubbish it is, but if it doesn’t, well, let me tell you: It’s rubbish. Really.”

I really am surprised that a “professional” writer would try to pass off their opinion on something as “Fact”. Especially when the article they write implies the opposite,

“But the real eye-opener is not that people like it, it’s that in 2008 more people downloaded each episode from torrent sites worldwide than watched it on TV in America”

I enjoy Stargate Atlantis and watched the show from the first and take exception to you calling this show “rubbish” and passing if off as a fact. If you do not like the show for whatever reason, then you should clearly state that it’s your opinion. It was bad form Mr. Bayon, bad form indeed for you to state it as a fact. And if this site would allow an opinion to be passed out as “fact” just throws suspect in the other articles written here. What other “facts” passed out here are really just opinions?

Steve – Alot of the fans who download buy the DVDs when they come out. Like me, I own all the DVDs currently released and new releases will join them in the future. I no longer have the channel that airs SGA in the UK, so if I didn’t download I’d have to wait about a year for the DVDs. But if I did have Sky One, I would only have to wait a few days for the episode as they are only a few days behind America (were a few weeks behind but skiffy kept taking breaks). Heck, sometimes Sky One airs the episode before America, like we got the SG1 final episodes first (back when I did have Sky One )
SG is a phenomenon, next Star Trek easily

Hmm, very few comments on the actual topic of the blog post, which I find rather sad.

I’ve watched SG-A on and off, it is okay. Hate Lost and Prison Break was pretty boring… :-S

Anyway… The biggest problem Europe has, as opposed to the UK and New Zealand (not 100% sure on Canada, do they HAVE to have a French version for simulcast?) is dubbing. It takes time to get the show over, get the same voice artists in and get them to read the scripts. I think many countries tend to do it as a batch process, so that the voice actors are all together and can do the whole series over a couple of weeks – that helps minimise the risk of injury, sickness, holidays etc. So I can understand that.

The biggest problem I have with getting the American shows over here is continuity! They tend to show them in random order (even random seasons). Navy NCIS is probably a classic. One week you’ll get an episode from season 4, the next season 5, the week after that, season 2, followed by season 3, then season one, before going back to season 5…

Being an English speaker, living in Germany, it is also frustrating that I can’t get access to the original sound track on a sub-channel.

Organising and getting the shows out, world wide, in a more timely manner is something the shows have to really get to grips with, but getting the individual countries to actually show the episodes in the right order might help as well! In the mean time, I’ve pretty much given up on watching American import shows.

Anyway, I’m off to see if we are getting a Christmas “Alarm für Cobra 11″ this evening, or maybe “Der Bülle von Tolz”. Germany’s answer to CHiPs and Columbo.

I must say, although I don’t watch much TV, I do tend to watch more home-grown series, rather than American imports.

The worst that’s ever happened to my comp when I download SGA is the ask.com toolbar installed itself, all i had to do was uninstall it. And that was the torrent site I was on not the torrent itself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7720918.stm when reading this bear in mind Stargate is made by MGM

Fun Facts:

Stargate SG-1 – 10 Seasons – 214 episodes – 2 DVD movies – More DVD movies on the way

Stargate Atlantis – 5 Seasons – 100 episodes – DVD/TV movie on the way

Stargate Universe – coming soon

So David, who has their heads in the sand? the entertainment people – or the fans?

well steve, it’s an interesting insight isn’t it. i find it hard to buy into the argument that downloading does no harm as long as you buy the dvd later. if those viewers still watching stargate on tv all thought the same way as these guys and downloaded instead, there wouldn’t be a dvd for them to all promise to buy later.

Also the SGA ratings are vastly improved when you add everyone who tivo’d, then they’re what they were before tivo and internret downloading became popular.

Stargate Atlantis was not cancelled because of low ratings, but rather because it is a popular show. MGM is banking on this popularity, literally.

They decided to cancel SGA and move it to DVD to make money. So for the cost of making 2 episodes, they will make more profit because they are counting on fans wanting to see the next episodes and to do that the fans will be have to pay $20 for the DVD.

I downloaded a few episodes when there was a long delay between showing epsiodes during Season 3. Part one “The Return” aired on 9/22/06 and the second part did not air until 4/13/07 – Canada aired the second part before it was aired in the US, so I decided to download the episodes. Why wait when they are available.

The way I understand the ratings system, your viewing is not counted unless you have a Nielsen box, I don’t have one, so my viewing is not counted. It would not make a difference if I watched the show live or downloaded it through the internet. But to help show my support for my favorite show, I buy the DVDs, the magazines, and buy episodes from Amazon. But it was all for nothing, TPTB decided to ignore the fans and do what they want and are counting on fans of the franchise to get over it and accept the new show, they have said so in interviews. Bad PR and bad decisions on their part.

Elsa raises a good point, only the 1000 people with Neilson boxes (a ridiculously small number considering the amount of people that live in America), can decide a show’s fate.

Of course worldwide legal downloads won’t completely stop illegal downloads, but it would help to give people more options then they have now. I certainly would buy the episodes legally if I could and they were at a reasonable priced (£1 or so).

That time that I did download SGA episodes I had to join a torrent website for about $15 for a year membership and then I was able to look for SGA episodes I wanted and was able to then download them. I have also bought SGA episodes from Amazon for $1.99 an episodes. If legal website offered the shows worldwide, I’m sure many would perfer to purchase from a secure site than through torrents where you may download virues and such. And those episode bought should be included in the rating system.

[...] Original editorial figures provided by Pc Pro This editorial post has now been updated to reflect the official news source this article is based on. The Stargate Archive Team would like to apologise to anyone who has felt upset by the contents of this editorial article. It has been published for informative purposes only and is not officially endorsed by the Stargate Archive Team. Interact With This Post [...]

You know how it is David. I attend the last lecture of one of the fundamental inventors of the computer and I get 1,800 hits. You make an offhand comment about a derivative soap-opera and suddenly it’s our Guy Goma moment.

Dan: my question was, if your fan-dom for something is because you are an intelligent professional (etc etc) then why be a fan by a means that actually doesn’t sustain the thing you like? I don’t know if you are in the UK but here we have little anti-piracy adverts which sing derisively about “knock-off Nigel” and seem to me to hit the nail right on the head.

What I’m trying to get my head around here, too, is the global reach thing. I’m stunned by the backlink (and their retraction): is David really the first person even vaguely near the SG fan-world to have looked at those stats?

“derivative soap-opera”…..
It the great words of Jack O’Neill himself, Oh for crying out loud. You seemed to have confused SGA for BSG, no wonder you thought it was rubbish. This comment has the potential to piss SGA fans off more.

We have knock off nigel too. Like I said before, there is simply no other way for me to watch these episodes without waiting for the DVD, and I buy the DVDs anyway. I download so I don’t have to wait a year. Back when I had Sky One, the channel that airs SGA in the UK, I rarely downloaded, only for episodes that had alot of hype around them.
I’ve only just found out that iTunes UK actually sell SGA, I didn’t know this before.

You asked about reasons for people downloading episodes … Although I watch (and DVR) shows when they air and purchase the DVDs when they come out, I like watching them on my laptop, particularly when I travel. But I don’t like carrying my DVDs around with me because I don’t want the weight & I don’t want to lose them. Since my laptop doesn’t rip DVDs, that leaves downloaded eps.

Kind of like making an extra CD of your favorite album of music to play in your car. Except music companies, even with DMCA, don’t insist on you purchasing a second copy for personal use.

One note on purchased downloads — while I like the security of them, I’ve also been frustrated by the poor quality of playback, particularly on iTunes.

Concerning the time delay for voicing translated scripts, that’s an element I hadn’t considered (darn English speaking-centric thinking hits again). With the large and growing number of people who understand English world-wide, though, I would think the studios could go ahead and distribute them in English (with the original actors, who add so much to the fun of the show with the way they deliver their lines), and then do a translated version the way they have been.

Thanks to those who’ve dragged this back on topic — it’s something I’m very interested in.

Under that definition every TV show ever is a Soap Opera.
Have you heard of Eastenders? It’s a very successful British soap but it airs on the BBC, this means no adverts/commercials, does that mean it isn’t a soap afterall?

David W, thanks for the info! I think watching TV shows from other countries in other languages would be a great way to learn/practice the language — but in the U.S., pretty much the only “legal” source of shows in other languages is foreign film, which can be expensive.

The web is becoming a good way to try to come to better understanding of each other, and torrenting shows from other countries could contribute. (Though trying to learn a culture from TV would be problematic, if U.S. shows are any example!)

Kirstin, try looking around the site. He is on staff for PC Pro.

Abrasive? Not trying to be; I could try if that would give you a benchmark to work from. Far as I could see i was coming in to find a great deal of highly abrsive inbound commentary from people whose starting positions – the whole download/copyright/celebrity thing – was either hard to understand, or wilfully obtuse. For those who are here strictly from the SGA universe, I guess I better say: I’m not on the PC Pro staff, I’m a contributing editor. Seeing how freely people misinterpret everything said here, I anticipate a rich series of rants about how that “ought” to mean this, that, and quite possibly the other – that seems to be what blogs comment trains are for.

Dan: The question of what the BBC are up to, imitating program formats dreamed up in commercial TV, is an interesting one – a case of a “mission to inform” being warped into a “mission to addict”. Of course, these days there’s a massive blurring of the BBC’s role because the syndication deals it has to many foreighn cable networks mean that in reality, it *is* a commercial TV maker.

I do think there is a difference between the intent behind a feature film, and that behind a repeating series: There is also no automatic link between a “soap opera” label and a general assumption of low quality or worth, in the production or the actors or whatever. i also think it is far more cruel to politely leave people deluded, either as to my opinion, or to how entertainments actually work, so I speak my mind. I’m aware that some parts of society think that speaking one’s mind is rude or abrasive – but this is the PC Pro website. Unlike a lot of grandstanders here, I didn’t turn up on the SGA website and start playing to the gallery there…

I must say this was an amazing article. First because it apparently embraces the idea of illegal downloads to the point of ranking which shows are most often stolen and Second because it runs down a television series which the reviewer is obviously unfamiliar with. Anyone who has watched this show would be aware of its flaws but also of its strengths. I am not a huge fan of Stargate Atlantis but compared to many programs out there it has a great deal of entertainment value. OTOH, perhaps Mr.Bayon is looking for those “reality” shows that are replacing scripted shows these days.

Magic,Mystery,Mayhem and Murder
http://www.buzzymultimedia.com

Just to ensure you both know where I am coming from with my comments…I am a daily reader of the PC Pro newspages and blog posts (apparently now at level 100, whatever that means!) I often complete the surveys which I am sent from your site (as I am such a ‘valued’ member). You lost any chance of a reasoned debate on the subject of why people download programs when you made unnecessary value judgements about the worth of a much loved series…Whether that was through stupidity or through a desire to create a little controversy I would not care to guess. However your attitude and that of the ‘abrasive’ contributing editor (adding petrol to the flames was so helpful Steve) causes me to question the impartiality which I have assumd ever since the 1st edition of PC Pro.
A little respect for the opinions of others wouldn’t go amiss, and a return to a more lofty standard of journalism than shown recently would be welcome. Your recent comments would never have made it through the editorial process for the printed magazine and there have been UB40’s a plenty for the unedited bloggers of many companies who were too quick on the keyboard as you both well know. Don’t try too hard to get on the wrong side of the readers – it is foolish to bite the hand that signs your pay cheque.

Hi! I find it surprising that you find surprising SGA is so downloaded. No matter if the show is good or not, people like it. Even that guy above, from US, said that the only time he got the epi on a torrent was when it pre-aired – well, guess what? that is the norm for the rest of the world. So: we get the epis in HD, we get it a few minutes after it airs in US (or preaired even), we get it free, we get it without adverts or interruptions, we get to see it when we want, where we want, in the right order, we don’t miss episodes (we can always get them years after they aired (example Trekies have all shows available, as do old-BSG fans) and the net, with multiple sources, ends up being more reliable than any TV station – is there anything else?! It’s very strange that people in the business don’t realize this… Until watching it legally is as good as this, the market won’t work and torrents will live. Torrent sites like mininova.org or thepiratebay.org are free. There is NO way a video carry virus or trojans, or whatever. That’s BS from people that actually don’t know much about computers. As long as you don’t run .EXE or install software (or VIDEO CODECs from unknown sources), you are ok. Oh… and no matter how much I like SGA, BSG is far better even more so than TNG, which was the greatest until now.

Mack, you seem to imagine this blog site is outside the system run by Tim, Barry et al. What evidence do you have for that assumption? If you are that long-term a reader and indeed guardian of impartiality, where were you when some idiot wanted to tell me that convection didn’t exist? I don’t see an iota of impartiality in your contribution: I see more of the same overheated, forum-cooked, barmy “influencing” which follows hot topic threads all around the universe of blogs, forums, chat rooms, and the like. Ho ho, this will make them regret what they said, let’s teach them a LESSON…

The professional thing to do is not to wallow in the vicarious emotions of a set of fanboy reactions to a throaway line: it is to look at what those reactions are about – where they come from, how they play out, what they achieve. So far we have attracted the attention of a lot of downloaders, who seem well able to defend their chosen soap-opera (by the way, can someone give me another term for what this is – opus, maybe, or serial?), but unable to account for their own actions: the closer we get to understanding their attitude, it seems, the politer we must be, because – well, what? Because it’s intimate? Because it’s embarrassing, and they know they have been bad? or what?

There are some big subjects here – both in the original comment, which I grow more inclined to back up with every attempt to blacken it, by people with motives like yours – and in this thread. It seems that downloaders don’t want to think about what their actions mean for the decision makers in the creative companies; don’t want to engage in anything, except a kind of autistic, crazily limited “repel thought-crimes” kind of response to commentary; and won’t allow other people’s opinions of their actions. I’d like very much to get through those reactions and into the heart of what they are doing, preferably without turning this into the Jeremy Kyle show… thanks for your help on that score, by the way.

I am also reflecting on one of Pro’s finest hours, being the article by Duncan Campbell n Operation Ore. if this blog had been running then, and the work in progress had been blogged, would we ever have been able to reach publication?

Steve – to deal with your points 1 by 1…
1) ” Mack, you seem to imagine this blog site is outside the system run by Tim, Barry et al. What evidence do you have for that assumption?”
It appears self evident that there is no editorial control over what is posted by contributing editors/columnists (like yourself) – even in the magazine your opinions are yours, not the official word of the publishers. As for staff, if there is an editorial control system in place it has failed in this case – unless the purpose of the posting was to create controversyand get some cheap publicity – a point I have made before in this thread and which has not been answered.
2) “I don’t see an iota of impartiality in your contribution: ”
I have made no claim of impartiality. As a reader and a poster to the forum I am not bound to be impartial. As a journalist and a representative of your employers I expect impartiality from David Bayon and, to a lesser extent, from you. I make no apology for that. to repeat “A little respect for the opinions of others wouldn’t go amiss, and a return to a more lofty standard of journalism than shown recently would be welcome.”
3) “There are some big subjects here – both in the original comment, which I grow more inclined to back up with every attempt to blacken it, by people with motives like yours – and in this thread”
There was a big subject here – the reasons for the popularity of P2P downloading of publicly broadcast television shows. The fact that your colleague chose to attach such emotive opinion to his statements – “Stargate Atlantis is rubbish. This is a fact. This one single photo should tell you just how rubbish it is, but if it doesn’t, well, let me tell you: It’s rubbish. Really.” – caused that big subject to be lost. In my opinion this is either poor, inexperienced and naive journalism or a cynical attempt to boost the number of comments made on the blog using methods more commonly found in the Sun. I hope it proves to be the former – experience comes with time while few escape the base emotions of publications like the Sun and its ilk.
4) “preferably without turning this into the Jeremy Kyle show… thanks for your help on that score, by the way.”
I do so hope you have read this far Steve. Your colleague David created this monster, you came along and added fuel to the flames. Your abrasive manner – totally unnecessary – in defence of your colleague, certainly didn’t help. On the basis of the evidence I conclude that David lacks experience ( I’d say he’s gained some over this thread) and that you are a shit. i know its not impartial, but that is my opinion.

Thank goodness I decided to check back and see if you had ‘had a go’ – of course you did. I am professional in what I do, I’m actually very good at it. I’m sure you are expect in your work with computers, otherwise you would not be a contributing editor on the magazine. This forum is nothing to do with my work, nor with my employers. My opinions are not theirs, they are my own. I and many others expect impartiality from the staff of the magazine regarding reviews etc. That level of impartiality is not expected from the other posters – you and your colleagues are the only journalists posting on this forum. I hope you feel proud that you have provoked such base emotions – one of my points (which you choose, repeatedly, to ignore was that the arousal of such ‘base emotions’ was perhaps the point of this article. I don’t believe that I have sneered at anyone, not even at you – I have forthrightly expressed a personal opinion. Not and unemotive one admittedly, but one that you drew upon yourself. My opinion of you remains unchanged as, no doubt, does you opinion of me. Feel free to have the last word, I’ll not be responding to you as you choose to ignore any points made that don’t suit you. Have a nice day.